Ok so out of all the plug-ins I use, VB3 II seems to be the only one that has ever consistently crashed Cantabile 3 for the last 12 months and that’s really scary because C3 also runs the drum sequences in my trio, so when it dies everything stops. The crashing seems to be happening during Leslie speed changes. I did a forum search and noticed the VB3 crashing seemed to be occurring with other people too but there didn’t seem to be a solution.
During the last IK Multimedia group buy, I ended up getting Hammond B3X, however the main reasons holding me back from installing it was not knowing how well B3X played with C3 plus the fact that I’d have to recreate about 20 songs worth of organ patches from scratch oh and learn how to implement midi control of drawbars etc on my Arturia Keylab
Is anyone using BX3 in their live rig successfully?
Thanks for your input Volker. I just installed B3-X and it seems to work fine but I guess time will when I use it at the next full-band rehearsal.
The one thing I do notice however compared to VB3 is how much more CPU it uses. VB3 II sits at around 9% idle and peaks at 15% when playing, where B3-X idles at 20% and peaks at around 35% playing… I’m guessing that’s because B3-X is sample based and not modelled like VB3?
Not exactly sure what’s the reason behind but maybe you’re right. I should have mentioned that my solution when using VB3 is to include the IKM Leslie plug. This partly “equalizes” the lower cpu consumption. Combining basic sound (a bit mellow) and internal distortion of VB3 with IKM Leslie gives me some colours I can`t get out of B3-X (but of course all this is also a question of personal taste).
One recommendation for someone starting to use B3-X: @Corky has created tons of terriffic rack states for this plug (and also other clonewheels) which he kindly shared here and it can be a good starting point to make use of them (he really is a mastermind in hammond sounds).
Edit: just had a look on cpu demand on my actual machine and can confirm your observations in idle mode:
B3-X: around 25%
VB3II: around 13%
VB3 & IKM Leslie: around 21%
A few things you need to understand…VB3, and VB3 II are “modeled” and are relatively easy on CPU. B3X is a hybrid. It has some modeling and samples. If you use any of the FX, the CPU % goes crazy. This is why my custom presets were not using the FX. I found other ways to get the sound I was looking to achieve.
Another CPU hungry part is in the Leslie settings are things like Guitar Amp, EQ, Rotary Speed, etc will boost % with just a small adjustment.
Concerning IK Leslie with both VB3s, It is also CPU hungry. Slight adjustments could cause a spike. VB3 1.4 is still a great plugin, and the Leslie sim is one of the best. There is also Blue3, a modeled Hammond. The newest version is really quite good with low CPU.
I use B3X successfully every gig and recordings. If you are worried about making patches from scratch, check out my Organ page, and download the free patches I gave to the members, and more are coming soon. If you want to adjust them to your liking, just use them as a starting point, although you will find most of them all you will need in most situations. Be sure to follow instructions.
I have all these in a rack, so if you are in a huge hurry, I might be able to provide a rack, which will be immediately usable. As far as midi controls, all my key controllers are routed thru C3 for drawbars, and all the switches on the face of the organ. Is this like playing a real Hammond? NO! But, it is the best closest thing, and I enjoy playing my clones!
If you need further help, or ask questions, you can express it here, on the organ thread, or PM me.
I visit the forum everyday, even though I am ridiculously busy as of late. Gigs have been flowing rather well.
Yes, I use B3-X as my “lead” organ - so all songs with the organ in a prominent role. I use VB3 or Blue3 for songs where the organ is less prominent or part of a layered sound - they are easier on the CPU.
MIDI control of drawbars etc is pretty straightforward - the MIDI configuration page of B3-X works nicely.
I usually put my instruments into a rack and do all mapping of external controllers via bindings (from rack input to the plugin parameters), instead of using CCs directly from the master keyboard to the plugin. Using this approach, you could make B3-X behave just like your previous plugin - no need to change anything in your songs or in your controller assignment.
Thank you for the tips gents. So I thought I’d try Volker’s solution… however I can’t find the IKM Leslie plug-in, I don’t see a separate component in B3-X that is a Leslie plug-in like there is with VB3. Are you referring to the Leslie plug-in that comes with TRackS 5?
Yes…that is what I was referring. But, the resident Leslie within B3X can spike CPU, if you really start pushing the limits of the settings. When B3X first appeared, I was using a Win 7 machine, standard HDD, and very small RAM. B3X was damn near impossible to use, even as a stand alone.
My WIN 10 machines have plenty of RAM and SSD drives, and B3X runs fine. If I push the limits, I may go over 50% CPU occasionally. It is nearly 2AM here, and I just made it home from a gig. My B3X was in 60% of the songs, and performed perfectly.
Ok well VB3 II just crashed again so I’ve decided I’m now going to stop wasting time and replace it with B3-X. I won’t bother with the TR5 Leslie plug-in since all my systems are less than a year old running Windows 10 and can handle the load.
In order to minimise volume differences in song patches I also started replacing individual plug-ins with Linked Racks. So I created a Linked Rack called bass which uses the same bass pre-set I created in the Korg M1 plug-in for every song and that has been working great, however… I just created another Linked Rack for my B3-X plug-in and need to find a way to load different pre-sets according to the song loaded because at the moment it loads the last saved organ pre-set.
How do I accomplish this in a Linked Rack scenario?
Since you are planning to change presets for particular songs, This is what I’d do:
Set presets within the rack as States. So, preset 1 is the first state, preset 2 is the second, and so on. You will need to check the rack states “behavior” boxes, and save the rack state (presets).
Next, load the rack into a song, then at the “song level (page)” (not in rack level), you can select the state in the box to the right of the rack. When you click the box, all your presets will be presented. Just select the preset you want to use, and save it at the song level. The preset will be saved for the song. If you use song states, each state could have different presets.
Hope I made sense. I can make a visual for you if needed, but only after a few winks.
Forgot…your linked rack will be available for all the songs you want. Just drop it into song, and once you load the rack, it is ready for many songs without re-loading every time. It becomes very quick after first load within set list.
Most of what @Torsten said. I use Blue3 often for the layer, or the “Great” (lower manual of the B3) sound. It sits nicely in the mix and under a piano. There are only a few registrations (patches/sounds) I use for this. The IK MM B3-X, to my ears, has more “bite”, thus it pops out of the mix. I’ve also (don’t listen to this part @Corky) come up with sort of a fake-out way to simulate drawbar changes like Gregg Allman or Gregg Rolie. I map the Mod wheel so that the top 4 draw bars start coming out as the wheel advances. When the wheel is fully engaged, the top bars are something like 5688. When the wheel is all the way back, they are 0000. Also, when the Mod Wheel gets to about 100 the Leslie goes to fast. Although not completely authentic, it does simulate the different sounds on “Stormy Monday”, “Evil Ways”, etc. I’m OK with that because I’ve often had audience members tell me how they liked my flute playing when I just played a sax solo. (These are the people that want “more cowbell” and Freebird.)
I had one of those people put onto the floor by security last night. This was an upper end place with about 300 people, many in tuxes. Mr “Freebird” just came in from a College Football Game. After all…it IS the South.
Here is a test rack I made for B3X sometime back. It includes most of my presets, and the bindings were extractions of a couple of my key controllers, which you can delete if you want. The MAIN binding is the expression pedal. It is essential to my presets. If you have an expression pedal, link it to the exp pedal within B3X with a binding(as demonstrated in my bindings). Understand though, when you try it the first time, the exp pedal in B3X is at full throttle, so mind your ears. This simulates the feel of a Hammond. The more you increase the pedal, the dirtier the sound, as the pedal is driving the amp tube. Just drop this rack into Cantabile racks folder. Load it as a linked rack.
Hope this works for you! Let me know how it works.
Since switching over to IKM BX3 I haven’t had any issues with Cantabile locking up and shutting down. My guess is that VB3 just didn’t like working with either of my windows 10 systems and Steinberg URC audio interfaces.