Serious MIDI controller for Cantabile (fighting with stuck notes)


#81

To whom it may interest: here a link to a posting on gearsluts from April 2017 showing an overview of keybeds used in keyboards from various manufacturers:

Regards, humphrey


#82

Short update.
Arturia support suggested to upgrade to last firmware (1.1.3).
Then to make a hard reset (Oct+ and Oct- while switching on).
I was asked to copy dump of midi monitor from MIDI control center.
Of course in 10 minutes of wild playing I was not able to get a stuck note.

I managed to get a stuck note only after I sent my report to Arturia.
Maybe someone could try, it seems to me that new firmware is more robust…
Or I am too tired to play wild. It is 00:50 AM now.


#83

Further update.
Arturia support suggested to bring back my controller to the dealer.
To get it repaired or replaced. Depending on reseller policy.
Now I need to find the billing document, not an easy task…
If I find it I will try.
I am quite sure no one will be able to find any defect.
Forcing me to get it back and sell the device as used.
As usual, I will trace here the events.


#84

Take something to the dealer that allows you to demonstrate it to them.


#85

Easy…
It is a huge shop. Dozens of synth.
One midi cable and an organ preset.
And wiiiiiiiiild playing


#86

Should be easy then, and worth doing to prove your point. :slight_smile:


#87

Problem is to get a stuck note in short time.
Not always predictable


#88

Maybe make a video of the notes sticking and bring it with you?

  • Paul

#89

Good idea! :slight_smile:


#90

Build 3630 (available now) now tracks notes sent to plugins and will explicitly force them off when the “All Notes Off” command is invoked.


#91

I’ve been getting a couple of stuck notes per gig on my Akai MPK261, but never on my StudioLogic SL88 Studio.


#92

I suspect “soft” keyboards are more sensible to wild organ playing and stuck notes.
With an hammer version you cannot be too wild, or you can lose some fingers…

Arturia changed yesterday usb driver (my notebook loaded it spontaneously).
Tonight I played with a rock blues band for 2 hours and no stuck notes.
Mistery becomes more intriguing…


#93

Very strange though that this started happening to several people, with several different keyboards. It apparently hasn’t been a notable problem in the past. I’ve been using several different controllers for well over a decade with no stuck notes. Then I had a problem, coincidentally at the same time others are reporting it. “Wild organ playing” has never caused a problem. Neither has certain “soft” controllers. So, to label a controller brand, or glissandos as the problem solves nothing. I still have controllers from 15+ years ago, and some I bought this year…and none of them had a problem with stuck notes, till recently. So should I list all my controllers and defame them as junk?

I do not believe everyone’s demon controller just went bad all of a sudden. I don’t believe mine went down either, especially after the many gigs I’ve successfully played this year. I don’t believe everyone’s cabling went bad at the same time. The thing is, no one can recreate the problem where it can be analyzed.

If you reason it out, we all have one thing in common…C3. Brad can’t recreate the problem, but we could share OS info, and C3 version. It may not solve the problem, but it is working toward a solution much better than blaming styles and controller brands. BTW, I am running Win 7, and C3 v3628, and never had any stuck notes prior to 3613.

I was running C3 3623 while this was being discussed. I moved to 3628 2 weeks ago. Only 1 glitch in the last 7 performances. I plan to load 3630 tonight, and will test 6 different controllers in my gigs this week. Hopefully, that will be the end of it for me.

Rant over…taking my meds now. :scream:


#94

Funny, my stuck notes are almost exclusively while literally “wild organ playing.” And yes, I mean the musical instrument… sickos…


#95

While trying to catch the bug I tested a setup without C3, and without any computer.
Arturia Keylab 61 mkII driving via midi cable a Yamaha Montage.
And I got stuck notes.
So C3 or any computer issues are out of the game.
It seems to me that all hardware synthesizer perform quite better.
My Montage or my Viscount legend NEVER had a stuck note in years.
My two midi controllers do it a lot of times.
Everyone shows stuck notes only with pure midi controllers.
I am sure this is a quality issue of keys, key scanning or firmware
Cheap controllers seem to be worse.
Not trying to blame any brand…
No one reported anything about Novation or Nektar. Good manufacturers?


#96

Could be for you, but that is not what I am finding from my stance. The stuck notes here NEVER happened until a few weeks ago…and with different controllers. So, I am quite sure this is NOT a controller issue with me. The thing is, no one has a solution yet.

My E-Mu XBoard has never stuck notes in the 15 yrs I’ve had it. Yet it did within the last few weeks.

And I guess the other 5 controllers I used, magically had the same problem…according to you “quality issue of keys or firmware”, within a few weeks time?
I also have an Arturia mini I bought six years ago…no problems. but stuck, like the others, in the same time frame. As for hardware keyboards, my reliable E-MU Proteus I purchased in 1992, never, ever stuck a note till yesterday, when I ran midi out to B-3X thru C3.

Sorry Furio…not buying it for my situation. At least the newer C3 builds seem to be reducing the problem. If not, I will go to an earlier build where there was no problem.

Not intending to be argumentative, but from my experience, my controllers are not the problem. In yours, a new Arturia driver worked, even though you said it was useless and were going to sell it. Glad you finally got it going. I hope to solve my occasional problem soon as time allows.

Regards

Corky


#97

Dear @Corky
I have no clear solution, I can only report what I tested.
Recent developments “seem” to show that some software changes made my Arturia Keylab perform better.
But I need a serious test and will try to play in insane mode for some time.
I have my real job and an old dad to support, so I can plan my next test session only for next weekend.
But anyway, as far as I can go, this is a problem for me with setups that are not C3 related too.
I had same problem using Reaper. And I still have if I try.
And with controller bound to Montage.
To be honest, I had it since many years.
So for me it is not C3, quite confident with that.

I was sure it was responsibility of an old cheap controller (M-Audio Oxygen, first version).
So this moved me to buy a serious one, the famous Arturia.
Having more or less same issue (but less often) made me start the discussion here.
It is more or less 500 bucks against 100…

Point is that everyone of us now uses a damn good organ VST like B3X (and you had some responsibility on that…) .
Only playing with that thing, we lose every manner and start playing wildly.
If you play VSTs simulating a classical piano, or a monophonic synth, or a poly synth with brass and pad, no stuck note ever happens, we all can agree on that.
This is why we all find stuck notes now: we are pushing our systems to their limits.
I am disappointed we cannot start a serious comparison with some real parameters (scanning frequency, memory buffer, key mechanics) because all of this data are not known to us when we buy a controller.

Obviously I am not sure of anything: bug tracing is always black magic.
So any contribution is welcome: if you find a working solution backtracking C3 versions, let us know here.
It will be helpful to all of us, including Brad.

As we say here: maximum respect to your efforts and your job.


#98

My 2cts:

  • On my 88 key Arturia Keylab88 I have never had a stuck note, ever. Not 2 years ago, and not now. I play daily on that thing.
  • On my keylaB 61mkii (now in for repair) I got stuck notes every couple of minutes - even when not playing wild organ parts, just moderately busy piano parts. Tried connecting it to my Kronos and that gave stuck notes too :slight_smile:

So … not a recent issue (otherwise I would see it on my 88) - just a bad mkii - covered by warranty so not too worried.


#99

I can’t think of anything in recent builds that might be provoking stuck notes - but it’s a complicated piece of code and anything is possible.

I’m wondering if a good idea might be to add a diagnostic command to Cantabile that simply reports which MIDI-In ports currently have held (ie: unreleased) notes. This could at least help determine when a stuck note happens if it was the controller (or USB cable, or MIDI Driver) vs Cantabile itself.

The other point I’d like to make… if notes are stuck while just playing and not across song/state/routing switches then this is almost certainly external to Cantabile. If these are notes that were held before a song/state switch and remain stuck after the switch, then this is more likely a Cantabile issue.

Brad


#100

Brad

I would certainly welcome the diagnostic command. I think it might just lead us in the right direction to resolving the glitch.

I was just trying to reason out why this started with several people, in the same time frame, with only Organ plugins. If it were just 1 of the vsts, I would know where to go. If it occurred regularly, I could catch it.

The discussion moved to controllers, when in fact, other similar controllers were fine. Then to glissandos. That led me to what we had in common…Organ VSTs, C3, maybe OS updates. Cabling changes, and interface changes made no difference.
It only happens occasionally, but I’ve learned how to handle it in the middle of a solo with no one knowing any different. :wink:

In the meantime, I moved to 3630, and after a few hours of Organ assault (no pun intended), no stuck notes yet.

Regards

Corky