Are you mixing your dirt in using both the VB3 and Leslie units Fred? What’s a pleasing mix in your opinion?
Well, I’ve been using the Amplitube Leslie for a couple of months now and it’s the best sim I’ve come across. I use the 147 amp/147 Speaker combination with AS B5 and it’s the closest I’ve come to feeling like I’m playing my real Hammond. Unusually (I suppose) I’m using it through two Bose L1s and the problem with other sims (including the Neo Ventilator) has been the marked difference in sound between ‘Brake’ and Slow/Fast. With my real Leslie it’s simply the straight sound on ‘Brake’ and then the Leslie is added. No change of characteristic other than the Leslie effect, of course! The IK Leslie achieves this really well.
I tried the VB3 MkII but controlling it from my XK3 (nrpn midi for everything) is too difficult and I must say I prefer the B5 anyway. As you know from my earlier post I had some issues with the IK Leslie and large spikes in cpu but upping the buffer to 512 has rid me of the dropouts and clicks and the higher latency is not noticeable to me. There is also still a Leslie switching issue which seems to be related to the Amplitube window and although initially helpful, the IK helpdesk seems to have gone very quiet, despite my discovery that the problem is not apparent in the T-Racks version.
I’m still messing with that, and with adding other tube simulators in between. I still like VB3 Classic better for overdrive, and Mk II for cleaner and light grit. If I had to guess I’d say it’s maybe a 50/50 blend but right now there’s no set formula.
As I stated above, the IK works much better as an enhancer, not a source. So, if you are trying to get dirt (and we all know everyone has their own opinion about it), find a source of the grit you can live with whether it is achieved thru your Hammond plug, an amp sim, a pre-amp, whatever. Once you get that, add the IK, and play with it’s settings until you reach smile status.
As far as most other Hammond sounds, IK does a great job with them as well. I have collected many Hammond clones over the years, so I dragged the unused, waste of $$ ones out, just to see what would happen thru IK. B4, Vintage Organs, Charlie, UVI Retro Organ Suite, 8Dio Studio Vintage Series Studio Organ, Arturia B3…and others. The Sample based organs had a good Leslie sound, but no acceleration and deceleration. The modeled ones had leslies that sounded, at best, like a cheesy vibrato. IK improved them all, but not all them had a good Hammond sound.
8Dio has a great sounding Hammond, and was killer thru IK. They have both, a sample based, and modeled Leslie that ruins the Hammond. The problem is, I don’t need 1GB of memory being used for the plug.
B4 and Vintage Organs “basically” have cheesy sounding Leslies (not intended to start a war, just my opinion). IK brings these old plugs to life.
The UVI and Arturia also come to life with IK, but, again, I have better choices.
Through the years I tried other Leslie sims, like Melda, VB3fx, PSP Lotary, and others. IK bitch-slaps all of them.
So now, I have 4 great choices for Hammond sound, B5, VB3 1.4, VB3 II, and Blue 3. I like them all for different reasons. Their stock Leslies are far better than anything we’ve had in the past. Add IK to them, voila.
We’ve only had the VB3 II for over a week now, and already people are “poo-pooing” it. It is NOT an upgraded version of VB3. It is something quite different. I personally like like it. I like the resident Leslie too. I used it in 2 songs at a gig this past weekend, and it cut thru very well. I am going to test the IK with other Hammonds this coming weekend, but IMHO B5 doesn’t gain much with IK; it’s Leslie really defines it’s sound. Blue3 becomes warmer with IK.
Defining "the best combo yet for that Hammond Leslie “Sound” is going to always be an opinionated battle. Until you ditch the presets and get under the hood of these plugs, you’ll never know what the possibilities are. I perform different styles of music. I did some recording for a prog band a few weeks ago. I play old soul and funk, classic rock, alternative rock, country and blues. I laid down two tracks for a metal band a few months ago. All have their own needs, especially when using a Hammond. This is why I have 4 different clones at my behest. If you walk into a room with 4 Hammonds, and play each one, they will all sound different and have their own character. (And if I were able to do that, I would achieve a multi-orgasmic audio-sexual high)
All that needless word rabble being said, VB3 II with IK Leslie ain’t bad for achieving many great Hammond sounds. Much better than hauling the real monster and can change models without moving another in. Still waiting on Blue3 V2 tho.
No one is “poo-pooing” VB3 2. At least, I don’t think. We are saying that it isn’t quite what we expected it to be and, because it is rather a different animal than 1.4, we can’t say it’s a definitive improvement. There are elements of both I like the other doesn’t have. I wish v2 di everything v1.4 did, AND more, but it works out fine this way.
That was a general statement about in the “wide web”
I mistakenly posted this to Fred, but it was meant as a general reply. Having recently jumped into the world of VST’s from only having self contained keys has been an eye opener. In the past I had many different keys, all with their attempts to emulate the Leslie. After taking the plunge, I only had Vintage with its stock Leslie. While a huge improvement over other keys I’ve had with Leslie sim pedals, it still was lacking. Recently, I took the plunge on VB3 1.4, Blue3, the IK Leslie running in T-RackS and the demo of L’otary. I can honestly say, I like them all for various different reasons, too lengthy to detail here.
I don’t play guitar, but for those who do, some have 1-2 and others have 10-12. It’s all a matter of preference and I’m sure each of us can find something good to say about all of these plugs. Whether it justifies dropping the coin for every one that comes out is up to the buyer. What you do and how and what you play is truly unique to each musician. It is an endless debate because it is subjective.
As long as developers continue to put out demo versions to try before you buy, there will always be an opportunity to add one more piece of ammunition to your arsenal. Whether you use it, is totally up to you.
Having said that, I can agree with Corky about the IK Leslie. I had planned on changing out a lot of my presets in Vintage, but first decided to see what running them through the IK would do to them. A huge improvement. I am now thinking how many of those presets can I keep. As I have more time, I will do a much deeper dive into each of these, but right now, I can give the IK
Aw man, if that’s true that sucks. Poor Guido, after people clamoring for it all this time.
I think Guido is a genius at what he does. I am sure he is a great guy too. I have seen that through the many years of navigating his site. Problem is, he waited too long and let others catch up to him. Too bad, but good for us, because the competition has never been stronger. He really should have named V2 something else, as not to expect everyone else to think it is an upgrade of 1.4. V2 is great tho, and I still applaud his fine work.
On the subject of Amp sims, there are recently added free offerings from Blue Cat. Their destructor algo is supposed to be a new sound. Might be worth a look
It sounds great to me!
Free pre-amps and pedals at Mercuriall also. Been testing their stuff, sounds great.
Yep, I’ve been using Mercuriall.
I bought the Amplitube Leslie version instead of the T-Racks because:
- It seemed to be exactly the same plugin as the T-Racks version
- I use Amplitube for bass guitar
- IK discounted just the Amplitube version $45 off
What is the Leslie switching issue? Speaking of that, is there a way to setup the Amplitube Leslie in Cantabile so the mod wheel goes from slow to brake to fast like in VB3 1.4?
Hi, It’s supposed to be exactly the same as T-Racks though in my tryout with the trial version I couldn’t match the settings of my Amplitube version. I probably didn’t try hard enough! Still, I think the visual layout of the Amplitube version is better anyway.
The Leslie switching problem is to do with getting from ‘Brake’ to Slow/Fast (and I don’t think the Mod wheel can do Slow/Brake/Fast like a Leslie switch - at least, I haven’t been able to do it). I use a Line 6 pedal unit (though any midi pedal unit would do) for controlling the Leslie. Pedal A is set to Brake and Pedal B is set to Slow/Fast. If Pedal A is set to ‘single’, pressing and holding Pedal B immediately moves to ‘Fast’ (letting go moves back to ‘Slow’). Pressing Pedal A again goes to ‘Brake’. In other words from ‘Brake’ only one push is needed to switch to Leslie ‘on’.
BUT, and this is the issue, this only works if the Amplitube ‘Cab’ window is open (thus obscuring the rest of Cantabile). Close the window and press ‘Brake’ and no more Leslie slow/fast is available. The workaround is to set Pedal B to ‘toggle’ but this then requires a push again to move out of ‘Brake’ and into Slow/fast i.e. an extra switching movement. It didn’t happen with the T-Racks version which worked fine, windows open or closed. I’ve sent (and received) a number of emails from IK to try and get them to at least acknowledge the issue, including a short movie requested by them to illustrate the problem clearly, but so far there’s been no real response which is disappointing given that I really like the product apart from that one important control issue. I asked them if I could exchange it for the T-Racks version since that works ok but they didn’t respond. Ideally, once Brake is set ‘on’ it should switch to slow/fast with one button press then drop back to Brake on release as per a real Leslie switch but they seem to have missed this when developing the software. I’m still hopeful they’ll address this in a future upgrade - we’ll see.
Not really sure why there is a big difference in price with the T-Racks version but other than that it’s great!
My mod wheel, of course, runs the fast/slow. I created a parameter binding for the brake button to be assigned to my lowest key on my controller, but it could be assigned to most anything. Another beauty of C3.
I haven’t tried it yet, but I would think it possible to assign the brake to mod wheel values at center. Just haven’t looked into yet.
Thanks for the detailed answer - this is really helpful. I think I’m going to go with slow fast on modwheel as Corky recommends below and assign brake to a button on my Axiom 61.
I’m going to find out where to send feature requests and ask them to do the Slow-Brake-Fast with the mod wheel the way it works in VB3 1.4.
The lower price for the Amplitube version is a temporary sale - IK does a lot of flash sales like this.
I’ve figured out how to get the Mod Wheel to work from Brake -Slow-Fast (though not Slow-Brake-Fast, though I think the first way is safer anyway). Just refer to the CC1 lines and ignore the CC16, CC4 Lines as they are in use by external controllers.
The secret seems to be in the Min/Max/Curve controls. Anyway, this works for me and you may be able to refine it to exactly where you want your mod wheel to change speeds.
Incidentally, I’ve now changed the pedals A&B settings on my Line 6 using a ‘Custom’ setting that matches the Amplitube CC1 controls; now I can switch directly from Brake to Slow/Fast on there as well! Finally. No thanks to IK for any help towards solving that issue!
There have been calls for a way to make the IK Leslie speed switch and brake switch from a single mod wheel that behaves nicely with the brake at center area of the mod wheel. @Corky first spoke of it and he was right, it can be done in C3. I got to looking at it and came up with this solution using Cantabile bindings. The first thing to consider is that you want the bindings to be the only source of CC data to the Leslie plugin so delete any automatically created input routes from the main keyboard to the rack directly.
next move to the bindings page and create these 5 bindings
Set all bindings values to “Discard”. Now When you move the wheel into the sweet spot in the middle it engages the brake without setting off the speed switch (which by the way over rides the brake when invoked) and re-engages when the wheel is moved out of the sweet spot. The sweet spot can be made wider or narrower by changing the values of the bindings. Lastly open the options for the leslie plugin and make sure the latch options are Off and that the states behavior boxes are checked for the brake and the speed switch if not already done.
Works great on Win 10 X64 3543. It’s a workaround for now … hope it helps some of you!
C3 Bindings … the gift that keeps on giving!
Thanks for the work on that Dave. I intended to setup a Leslie rack inclusive of bindings for that, and share it, but been bogged down with health and family issues. Have some ideas for other racks as well.
No sweat Corky, I hope things get better on your end of it. I know how it goes …