How to get faster song switching?


#1

Hey guys,
I notice that song switching, even with preload on, differs from song to song.What are your experiences and best practises to have it faster switching? I think media player files slow down the process?


#2

Confirmed: media players definitely increase switch times. I have songs in my setlist with up to 15 media player in parallel and load takes up to 4 seconds.

Another source are larger kontakt libraries here. Even though everything is preloaded it can take an additional second to switch.

Btw: I‘m using SSDs all the way and there’s lots of free RAM available…

Regards, humphrey


#3

The biggest slowdown comes from sample-based instruments in racks that change patches and need to load different sample sets. Any Kontakt racks in your setups?

I try to keep my Kontakt racks few and static - load the samples once and then only change routing and post-processing (eq, FX)

Cheers

Torsten


#4

Well,not really, only synth1 and some other plugins but even not sample based It sometimes takes way to long. Let me make a video of that.
I recently tried GigPerformer and they switch very fast.
Their software is not what I’m looking for, to many problems I cannot solve that are more easy in C3 :slight_smile: and I kinda know my way around here also.
But still it would be very important to have faster switching.

I was looking at this video and I might have an idea.

idea:
If you don’t use all the midi channels, would it be workable to have a function that can alternate midi channels in the backgorund and so switch the song before and after very fast?
Let’s say, main ch is 1. Alternative in the settings, use 16 to load the plugins of the next song and then have C3 reroute it all to ch1 for the keyboard when switching?

For me fast song switching is crucial and a big backfall in C3 because I play in coverbands with lots of medleys.


#5

Hm, Indeed, the linked rack for guitars with some kontakt in it loads slowly. I’ll remove them, seems that even when the plugin is offline it still loads. Or might be in some states.



#6

Hey Sven,

I can’t understand why you bring this up without more details. You are making a claim I believe is worthy of more explanation seeing as it is a direct comparison regarding speed of song switching. I like Cantabile a lot but if the other product is superior in speed I would like more information on how you staged your testing.

Thanks,

Dave


#7

Hey Dave, don’t get me wrong, they are 2 different products, and the support here at C3 and with Brad is without doubt very valuable. (That’s why I prolonged my license also).
I know it’s a bit sensitive to talk about GP, especially after some incident in the staging days of GP.
But still I have to admit, the song switching is perfect. Just instant. The way it should be.
I think C3 can do better than this.

Further more, GP didn’t meet my needs because

  • no background rack (I like this function allot, handles input and overall connections) At GP they advice me to open multiple instances, but I think that’s not the way to work.
  • the racks work in a different way and I would have to create a whole new rackspace for each song. So no reuse of the linked racks. I like this in C3, I can just create a bunch of racks and reuse this in other songs.
  • Although the notes function is better, with Chordpro function and colors, and that was also a point why I was looking for switching. But it’s not perfect. They were thinking about improving that.
    That’s why I believe C3 has lot’s of functions that can be easily improved.
    I just hope Brad finds time for it, although some functions seem rather simple in my eyes :slight_smile: (but I’m no programmer :wink: And respect allot Brads work. But we need to keep in mind, this still is a product and products need to improve.
    I’m allready happy with the diagrams and now lately the recent setlist (little things that mean allot, oh well, the diagrams is a big thing)

#8

Would there be a way with some nifty programming to alternate the song switching channels maybe throught the background rack?


#9

Actually, are offline plugins also counting to be loaded every time?
I have these in my Masterrack, maybe I should delete them instead of disable?


#10

Sorry if it came off that way Sven, I just wanted to know why you got faster switching with the one vs the other so no problem here :slight_smile: .

I did look at their manual and it offered some clues as to why it is different than C3 when it comes to speed of song switching. The main difference I see is what they call “Predictive” loading which prioritizes loading order of things according to the set list order. This includes pre-loading samples and media tracks for the next song If I understand it correctly and would help explain the speed of switching difference. From what I read it would be good for folks that use the set list in order but I’m not sure how it would behave when you choose songs at random in the set list. In my work the set list never ever gets followed verbatim so I bring it up. Anyway I’m glad I took a look at their manual just to see what they are up to. Thanks for posting.

Dave


#11

Hi,

I gave GP a try some time ago just out of curiosity and here are my findings:

  • you‘re correct @dave_dore: predictive loading only works if you stick to the order songs are arranged in your setlist.

  • I got crackles when using a high performance song with much cpu load while GP was loading in the background.

  • I found GP to be not as cpu-efficient as they stated on their web side. A test with Diva gave me 5 instances on GP in contrast to 9 instances on cantabile before cpu overload produced crackles. I think this is the typical „cpu meter issue“ we already had in comparison to forte.

Not to mention all of the advantages I love cantabile for. For me GP is a nice tool but absolutely no reason to swop.

Regards, humphrey


#12

I’m just not sure if i could improve the loading time with a few seconds if i replace all the pianos and organs with a linked rack with states of the presets.
Would this load faster then the plug-in itself?


#13

@So_Godly I’ve played with that idea; the answer is no - for all practical purposes. That is, the plugins themselves do not take any load time, but loading the presets does. Every time you load another preset (in the plugin that’s already loaded), it needs to load the samples, and that takes time.

The way I do it now is:

  • I have a liinked rack for all the piano’s I use
  • every piano preset is on a different Midi channel, in a separate instance of the plugin
  • or with plugins like Kontakt that has multi’s, I have every piano in one multi, but on different Midi channels

When I need a piano in a song, I load the linked rack and route to the appropriate midi channel.

Switching is totally instantaneous (or so fast I can’t notice any switch time)

Downside is that it gobbles memory, and load time at startup is higher.

Works for me!


#14

Interesting approach !
So that’s kinda the idea for a general fast switching also.
@brad, can you incorporate this in a way in the system?


#15

Euh… this is incorporated today - I use it every day and it just works. Or are you thinking of a way to facilitate this approach? (can’t think of a way to do that, except for doing exactly this in the background - but whether that’s worth the effort ?)


#16

Yeah of course :slight_smile:
This approach can work for every next/prev song in the setlist.
Use 1 general channel and redirect next songs to another channel, but keep it controlled by ch1


#17

Yup, and not just for prev/next - it allows for totally random access, instantly!


#18

A possible source for slow loading is when you have “Entire Bank” selected in Plugin State Behavior - this reloads large samples too even if you preload the set list.
Matej


#19

True, but if you preload that won’t slow down song switching :slight_smile:.


#20

Tried it right now and it does actually reload kontakt sample library so I wouldn’t say that it won’t slow down song switching…