AndâŚI donât dispute that. I am all about free speech. I just think, with all the lies from thousands of places for the last 9 months, it is damn near impossible to know the REAL truth on anything. Civil discussion is one thing, but things can get ridiculous quickly, and I think we should avoid being sucked into that black hole. I definitely have my own opinions, but choose not to express them here. So, discuss all you want, but keep it civil and respectfulâŚthatâs all.
I think we all have a quick trigger after a year of this, so now I know how I would do in prisonâŚnot very well. I am learning how to make a shank out of a milk carton and hardened feces.
Since weâre all back to nice & civilized: I went back to the original source of the topic of the Zero Hedge article - the Norwegian Health Institute. Their web statement reads:
For the vast majority of older people living with frailty, any side effects of the vaccine are more than offset by a lower risk of severe disease from Covid-19. However, for those with the most severe frailty, even relatively mild side effects of the vaccine can have serious consequences. For those with a very short remaining lifespan, the benefit of the vaccine may be marginal or irrelevant. Therefore, for very frail patients and terminally ill patients, careful weighing of the benefits and harms of vaccination is recommended."
In my interpretation, this is a pretty reasonable statement (I know the Norwegians to be pretty reasonable people in general ) - and I see NO reason to doubt the mRNA vacvination based on this. They talk about the side effects of ANY vaccination (and the strain it puts on the immune system) on the very frail and terminally ill.
For the moment, Iâm still keeping my fingers crossed that the huge effort to get a vaccine to anyone who will have it will allow us to get back to a somewhat normal life within 2021!
COVID is a nasty blighter, but to try and eradicate it by continual total lockdown is insane when the risk of death by COVID for the majority of people is less than the risk of death in a car accident - which we tolerate whilst living our lives because of the benefit that being able to drive brings us. That is what we have got wrong. I do not think lockdown is the right approach to try and âsaveâ ~70M UK citizens who have a minuscule risk of dying from COVID - but have more risk of dying from all of the undiagnosed diseases and problems being stored up because of the COVID focus.
Far better to take a âstratified protection approachâ, where you put your resources into protecting the people who are at great risk, like my mum, who I have not seen for nine months, my next door neighbour who is end stage cancer - I am more than happy for Government resources to protect them and others in need as much as needed. We have a health disaster in waiting now with all of the undiagnosed cancers and other illnesses because in the UK we âhave to protect the NHSâ. More people will die of this than COVID.
What annoys me, certainly in the UK, is when you start digging into the âdoom pornâ doled out by the UK Government and simply relayed by the likes of the BBC (they are not news organisations if they do not undertake investigative journalism) and you look at the officially published figures yourself. It beggars belief that the facts are hiding in plain sight. The statistics are being manipulated to scare the shit out of the population into compliance, but the official Government stats when analysed correctly tell a totally different story to the one doled out to keep the population in check
In the meantime we get on as best we can. We comply with the rules even though I do not agree with them, and letâs hope we all see the end of this soon.
The vaccine hopefully will restore normality, but that remains to be seen, especially when we have yet to see what the Governmentâs lockdown exit criteria is. In the meantime the economy is trashed, the national debt which will have to be paid off future generations is eye watering, a generation of kids are losing out on vital educationâŚ
Finally, respect to anybody who has a different opinion to mine - opinions will always vary.
The way America used to work, and imo should still work, is that I say âI disagree with the caveat that more needs to be knownâ, we agree that the hope is that it works out in the end, everyone has a beer and goes and makes some music (using Cantabile of course). LOL, so have a virtual beer on me (though I think I saw you are in Germany, which of course makes your beer much better)! Now if we could just get our politicians to have a similar outlookâŚlol, perhaps if we could get them to drink more beer!!!
With all due respect, talk to a doctor, nurse, GP or any other healthcare professional about whatâs going on in hospitals right now. I agree that mistakes have been made, but the current consensus between everybody that has any knowledge of this situation (as much as one can have in such a fast moving, unpredictable s&ÂŁ# show) is that locking people down is the best way to deal with it. The biggest problem is that from an economic, social and health point of view, there is no right answer to any of this. Our NHS right now is very much on the verge of falling apart trying to deal with this virus, I have several friends who are working in the system who have watched colleagues and friends die who are fully behind all forms of vaccinations. And remember, these are people who have taken a vow that is central to their lives, to do no harm. I think that it would have to be some impossible conspiracy to get every medical professional on the planet to completely go against the very foundation of their calling. (I say calling because all the medical professionals I know certainly arenât in the medical world for the money⌠This is the UK after all and the money isnât all thatâŚ) So if these vaccines werenât safe, or ineffective, doctors would be speaking out about it.
I have no faith in what our government tells me, but I do have utter faith in what my doctor and nurse friends tell meâŚ
As for all the conspiracy theorists and anti vaxers, we can but hope that natural selection runs itâs course because that sort of ignorant misinformation is killing people. Sorry to be so blunt, but thatâs a fact. A fact that Iâve got from people on the ground, risking their own lives to help people, not a website or government briefingâŚ
Apologies for the long post but as someone with a lot of close friends that are risking their lives day in day out, I get quite upset by the amount of nonsense that gets believed.
This from Newsweek, and echoed by Pfizer Thursday:
A renowned Columbia University virus expert has warned COVID-19 is not going to go away and that life may never return to normal.
Dr. Ian Lipkin, director of the Center for Infection and Immunity at Columbiaâs Mailman School of Public Health, told Spanish newspaper El Pais in an interview published today that the public is likely to âlive the rest of our lives with this virus.â
He noted future generations will have to be vaccinated and those who have received the treatment will still need additional booster doses. âIt is going to be a recurring problem. I donât think life will ever be completely normal again,â Dr. Lipkin added.
Though I hope this isnât our future, it makes sense as most viruses are never completely eradicated, just lurking around the corner for a non-inoculated host. Experts thought polio was over, until itâs return in recent years. IMHO, Covid vaccination may become a yearly thing, much like a yearly flu shot, and give us some normalcy.
In my opinion, if it isnât about covid jokes, this topic should be closed.
As you see people cannot respect others well examined opinions.
I wonât go further into the matter but i can only say history will tell and it wonât be pretty to see.
Itâs not about a virus itâs about a created opportunity.
I just follow the science & stats (medicine).
~3% of everyone who tests positive die. Anecdotally itâs lower. The road deaths in the USA ~ 33,000 pa. Covid had killed > 400,000 and itâs not a year yet. Itâs on track for > 1,000,000 pa, more if the vaccine is a dud.
Itâs a numbers game - like the proverbial rice on the chess board.
I was going to make some replies to the comments on what I posted, but in the end I have decided against it because I doubt we will ever reconcile our views on so controversial a subject, and there is the risk of further debate getting inflamed
Ow boy The Great Reset a Qanon conspiracy
Klaus Schwab wonât be happy to hear but as if they care
Anyway, I felt it from day 1 when it was starting, that this is more then a flew. At first I bought the story from the labo virus and really thought they released some monster. But all is glassclear by now.
Iâm completely into this documentairy, this sums it all perfectly up what is happening.
So you guys can keep on believing the media en take the vaccin, while many people already are dieying from it. Sorry to say guy, but this is a warning, because I respect you guys.
Donât be fooled by the media and their multimilliondollar leaders.
it would be wisest Derek, I even suggest Brad to remove this topic, itâs against good business and divides the good vibe we had. And like at the state of the world, what the political virus has done :â-( it really hurts :â-(
You know, if you keep repeating this, this thread isnât going to get any better.
Apologies to you (and Klaus Schwab & Prince Charles) if you really referred to them - but from the general tenor of your post (and the more recent ones as well) with remarks like âscience is the new religionâ and âthe disturbing words Gates sayâ and âdystopian totalitaire techno nightmareâ I was led to understand that you were referring to the follow-up conspiracy theory that the Great Reset is just a ploy for some shady figures behind the scenes aiming at introducing the New World Order (which is actually propagated by QAnon, Steve Bannon et al these days: their message is that âglobal elitesâ have created a pandemic in order to gain political and economic control so they can introduce a totalitarian New World Order).
To be clear: I totally respect the idea propagated by Prince Charles, Klaus Schwab and Justin Trudeau of re-building capitalism in a more fair and sustainable way (even though I considered it more as a kind of typical WEF âbig ideaâ at the time and Iâm not sure this is at all do-able in practice in todayâs world) - you were the one linking the Great Reset with a âdystopian totalitaire nightmareâ. So donât hang that one on me, broâŚ
To be honest Torsten, it shocks me to read this.
You call it a conspiracy theory, but thatâs far from my opinion as I turn on the news and step into the streets of this totalitarian system.
Then I can only say: Bravo to the new normal and totalitarism.
It will never be my normal as I will never be fooled by their fake propagandaâŚ
As long as everyone stays civil, I really donât see a problem with discussion. You might be surprised at what I believe, but I really donât want to air it all here. As I said above, I believe in free speech, but not in a combative way. That is not who we are in this forum. Politics and religion are always topics I run from. I also donât believe most of the crap posted on the internet. But, whoâs to say scientists are all-knowing when many are only dealing with theories. I personally donât trust the tsunami of âfactsâ thrown at us everyday, as many eventually prove to be untrue.
We are all blindly riding this pathâs chicane, and no one knows where, or when it will end. âNever let a good crisis go to wasteââŚright? Since people with different opinions are being silenced, and destroyed here in the USA, it is probably normal to think our Republic is in danger. Itâs fearful to think this is really happening, and I had to turn the TV off, just to retain some sanity. Listening to a lot music helps. Richard Wagner, and Procol Harum with Orchestra seems to calm me.
One thing thoughâŚsince you want Brad to delete this thread, why did you start posting again? Help me, because I donât understand.
I am learning how to make a shank out of a milk carton and hardened feces. 
) - and I see NO reason to doubt the mRNA vacvination based on this. They talk about the side effects of ANY vaccination (and the strain it puts on the immune system) on the very frail and terminally ill.
Now if we could just get our politicians to have a similar outlookâŚlol, perhaps if we could get them to drink more beer!!!
