For the last week or so I’ve been working on a proof of concept for an integrated web server in Cantabile. The idea behind this is two fold:
Allow remote control of Cantabile from a web browser on another machine, phone, tablet etc…
Provide an programmatic API to support high-level integrations between Cantabile and other systems (eg: custom keyboards, control surface integrations, scripting control etc…)
So far this is just a proof of concept, only supports the set list and hasn’t been released yet. But, it seems to be working quite well so I’m putting it out there for comment.
Interested to hear your feedback. In particular I’m keen to understand the minimum functionality required to make this useful.
(To be clear: this won’t support song/rack editing capability - all editing will still be done in Cantabile’s main UI, but beyond that, pretty much everything else is up for inclusion)
Brad
Web Browser Demo
A quick video showing the basics in action…
Multiple Devices Demo
A bunch of different devices all connected to the one Cantabile…
Technical Overview
This video gives a overview of the technical aspects and here are some draft API docs:
Very nice indeed!
The web page generation could be useful for live remote control e.g. on the iPad. I imagine it could be combined with a user defined mixer panel as described in this trello card: https://trello.com/c/DGprFYXz/408-mixer-panel
This use case would be:
Mixer panel can be configured in C3 main app, using ‘right click - add to custom panel’.
When the panel is complete, you could ‘publish to remote control’
On my iPad I’m starting the url for the remote control mixer panel.
I can inspect and touch control the user defined channels, busses and faders. (look at iConnectivity, it has a similar approach)
On C3 main screen watch and control user notes, setlist, songs and parts.
Both are controlled by and reflect changes from my hardware controller, using the bindings.
Of course this scenario also could work the other way around, but the idea of having a customized to-the-point mixer panel remotely available is awesome imo. I realize this is not ‘minimum functionality’, but still a generic approach resulting in lots of user functionality exposed.
A minimum set for me would be a setlist page with songs & parts, user notes on a song, metronome and tempo (tap).
Brad, Could you please explain how you would use this technique for hardware controller integration? Is this similar to Novation Automap technology or Ableton Link?
It looks very clever, but I have absolutely no idea why I would use it?
Assuming I could perhaps sync Cantabile for several players on stage (which would be useful), do I assume it would require us all to be on the same wireless network? There’s no way I would trust that in a live performance situation!
Thanks for feedback - I’m really not sure which direction this going to go, so I’m relying on feedback here to drive it. To answer some questions:
I’ve been wondering about something like that too - not sure how well it fits at this stage, but it’s certainly a possibility.
The primary use case I’m thinking about here is custom integrations like what @FantomXR is doing with his custom keyboards. These situations often require alot of bindings for it to work, and really that integration logic should be part of the system - not part of the user’s setup. With this approach it will be basically possible to write scripts that manage the integration between Cantabile and other systems without all these “extra” bindings in the songs or background rack.
Certainly not everyone will need this, but for those who want/need it could be extremely useful.
Not necessarily same wireless network, just any network connection between the devices should work (whether that be localhost, wired local network, wireless network, across the internet and around the world doesn’t matter). Granted though - wireless network on stage might be a concern, but it’s not unheard of.
For me, it looks like the thing I do with Teamviewer, you take full control over the remote machine.
Works like a charm, over intern network without internet or via internet.
I use a Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro tablet to control Reaper using it’s web interface. It’s an inexpensive way to add touch control - well, inexpensive because I already have the tablet
Surely the gurus will chime in soon on possibilities. Three yrs ago, I had no idea why I would use a network to control a digital mixer, but now it is normal for my bandmates to control their own monitor mix and control their FX as well on a tablet. No need to run cabling for front of house as it is all done with an IPad anywhere in the room. I could see the positive for set list display, but since I use show notes for lyrics and song maps, I would think it would be a great way to display this info to bandmates wirelessly. In my one experimental band, we’ve had several discussions about purchasing monitors for that info display out of C3, maybe even using LivePrompter. The Web Server would make it much more simple to achieve. Would love to see them rid of music stands and song books.
This could open more function related doors for C3 users from what i can surmise. Nice work @brad! I look forward to more of the ideas i am already hearing about like touch screen control from iPads and Android but also other laptops in a band situation for shared song changes, lyric and notes display, etc …
Okay, now I see… @FantomXR, very nice products! Holds some Kronos and Oasys ideas😏. Networked C3 communication and operation is a great opportunity in this concept.
I configured a ‘linked stage rack’ in C3, to remote control foh mix, iem mix, ‘performances’ of 8 sounds etc. using a generic, ‘song independant’ approach. I’m using the Korg NanoKONTROL studio for this and I do understand routings and bindings now, for sure🙂. So yes, if this can be made easier (or maybe more dynamic) using this scripting, I would use it.
Love it. It goes almost comically beyond my needs, at least for now, but it’s exciting to see such a forward thinking commitment to expanding the product.
I like the idea. Everyone in my band has tablets already to set personal mixes. It would be great for the notes to automatically come up for everyone when I switch to the next song. Even better would be if somehow each interface could have their own custom notes.
Reaper’s built-in web server is similar – the normal PC UI is unusably small via remote desktop on higher-resolution laptops and phones, so I’ve been customizing clients with “big buttons” and more functions than the built in clients, which are poor. The functionality is there but it’s very difficult for me to have to build action scripts for everything. Goal is one-click multi-track recording from a touchscreen phone or tablet, switching instrucments.
Correct - unfortunately windows only. Since you can get a cheap windows tablet/convertible for about 110EUR, which is one-third of the price of an iPad, it’s actually worth getting one of those just for lyrics/show notes duty
I usually have my liveprompter tablet fixed on a tablet holder on my keyboard setup, and an iPad sitting somewhere beside it for personal mixing. Wouldn’t want to switch back and forth on one tablet during songs or sets…
besides all the possibilities an API will offer (unfortunately I‘m not a programmer like many others here) the webserver interface reflecting the setlist seems to be very interesting for me.
I have a raspi 3B with the corresponding 7‘ touch display laying around lazy waiting for some activity and if I understand things correctly it should be possible to use it as touch client to select songs in a setlist. For me this would mean:
No need to get me an ipad (as raspi’s already there and even if not it would cost me just 100 bucks)
No WLAN necessary (I prosume that connection would also be possible by LAN) so no conflicts with all the mixer-remote-control-wireless-teansmitter-stuff living on stage
Could someone confirm?
@Brad: will the webserver-interface be available soon (seems to work pretty well😉) or are you planning to do a release not before all aspects of the API are clear and realised?
Might be handy to show the lyrics on the singers iPad or Android. Or even for the drummer, who can enter his own notes.
If only the notes system was better, now it’s a problem.
- share song files and have a custom set of notes for each musician.