Send a different PC to a plugin for each Song or Rack state?


#1

Just got Midi Guitar 2, and it’s in it’s own Rack. And the only way (that I know of so far) to change it’s patches/presets is with a Program Change (it works with a footpedal sending PCs). For some reason this plugin doesn’t act like all others I’ve used, so saving a rack state just doesn’t work.

I get halfway there, in that I do get the “Plugin Snapshot” bar at the top, and I can save a different rack state for each Snapshot. But I can’t get the plugin parmaters to save using that, even when I lock the icon. Am I missing something here in trying to get a snapshot?

My current attempt at a workaround is to go back to what I know does work… PC. So how do I get C3 to send a PC for a particular rack state? I know I can change a cc to a PC, but all the bindings I’ve tried don’t give me an option to send out a trigger like that.
Many Thanks!
Tom


#2

I logged the issue on the Midi Guitar form page. Its been bothering me for some time now, but I’ve learned to live with the limitation. It has the same issue in Cakewalk, so it’s not just an Cantabile hosting problem.


#3

Hey Tom,

Have you tried this type of binding placed inside the rack itself? When you change the state it will change the target value of the binding. You have to check the Target checkbox for the binding like this to work and then set the target value in each state to what you want. This example switches the target from preset 1 for state One to preset 5 for state two.

Hope this what you were looking for … :grinning:

Cheers,

Dave


#4

Thanks, Lorne, would appreciate it if you post here if you find a solution.

And thanks Dave… yeah, I tried that, and it does switch the presets… in this case it switches the Snapshot I circled in my pic. The only problem is I can’t get a patch to save in a snapshot… clicking the lock icon doesn’t save it. IIRC the snapshot is actually a C3 feature… how do you save a snapshot? I’ve tried clicking the lock icon, checked the online manual etc. I’m guessing this particular plugin just doesn’t respond to that.

Alternatively, any thoughts on how I can make C3 generate a PC or CC command, with a different command for each Rack State or Song State? I’d even be happy with using song position to trigger it, which would be fine for our songs that have backing tracks. Could have sworn I saw something like that quite some time ago but can’t seem to find it now.
Thanks!
Tom


#5

Yes, I misunderstood your situation. This binding solution inside the rack will do the trick. It is similar in that you only have to change the target program number on each rack state change.

You could do the same thing with song “on Load” bindings or Song state bindings.

Dave


#6

Thanks, Dave. That helps a lot, I’m close, but I keep getting the same patch regardless of the state.


State 1 should be piano, but I get 2 which is Bass Strings. State 2 should be Bass strings, it works, but in fact every state i select gives me Bass Strings. State 3, the unbound state, also switches to Bass Strings, even though I didn’t bind it. Yet, if I change the PC # on the 2nd binding to another PC, i.e. PC 3, that does work and I get a different patch.

So it’s sort of working, but I’m not properly binding to the right rack state…?

I must be missing something in how to bind each individual state. I’ve been just clicking on a state and then entering the binding. Then I click on the next state and bind that. But somehow only the last binding I entered seems to be active. So I think I’m not properly assigning each binding to the proper rack state.

I’ve read through the bindings section 3 times but I don’t see anything that solves it.

Thanks!
Tom


#7

I think this is the hold up … go to the state behaviors for the binding ( you only need one) and check the target box. Then when you change rack states just change the PG number in the target field to the PG value you want for that state. Each state will remember your selection.

That’s how the pics i posted are set up and they work fine here

Dave


#8

Ahhhhh… I should have seen that. Works great. As always, many thanks… and may cooler heads prevail

Tom


#9

Glad it’s sorted Tom! :grinning:


#10

Wonderful news. I will give it a test run soon.


#11

Here’s what worked for me. I just wanted the rack state to trigger the Midi Guitar program, so I just edited the state for the PC number and this binding.


#12

Yep, works great, glad you got it going. BTW I’ve been trying to get decent tracking on piano chords, which as you probably know is one of the hardest instruments on MG2. After trying internal MG sounds and Gate/Curve/Gain controls, I got ok results but for gigs the possibility of false notes was still pretty high. I’m now getting improved tracking by setting MG Gate to 0 (all the way CCW), Gain and Curve at 12 oclock and Tone at about 2. Then routing signal to GGate (free) in front of MG, then MG to a synth/sampler rack. GGate seems to allow more precise control. I haven’t tried compression yet, but I think for piano, where my main issue is a false note when you lift your finger off a fret, I may try an expander to see if that helps, or try with MG’s expander.

Another thing I found is a big difference between Synth 1 and SF2 players. I like S1 for it’s low load and pretty great sound, but I get more false notes with that than I do with SFZ player and a good piano sample. Anyway, right now I think it’s gig-able, but for limited use.


Anyone Using MIDI Guitar 2
#13

Thanks for the experimentation. I haven’t had success with piano at all, so i appreciate your ideas.


#14

Wow. Did some testing using the GGate config and I’m really impressed for keyboards. I need to try it on my flute and strings now. I still have to keep the noise gate on at 9 o’clock for triggering false notes.

Any particular setting on GGate you can suggest, or just the Default?


#15

I was trying my new MIDI Guitar rack out, and still have an issue. The rack states I am using which trigger the PC for MG2 don’t seem to work unless the MG2 plugin is actually open.

Have you overcome this with directly sending PC to the plugin? I was hoping my method had the same effect, but something is still off.


#16

I’m not in front of it right now, but I do know that the threshold has been running around - 35 or so but that really depends on your gain from your guitar of course. I’ve also been adjusting the rack in put volume, I have it down to about minus 13. and that saves with the song stay if I remember correctly, so you can actually adjust it for different instruments. Attack & release I have set to zero, I want the gate to open quickly. I have played around a little bit with the release but I didn’t notice much change.
Hope that helps!
Tom


#17

Hmmm… I think I’ve been keeping it open just to ensure that it’s still working as it should. I’ll have to test it with it closed. I think that yesterday after I programmed a song I had everything closed and ran through and it all seemed to work fine. the only other thing I can think of offhand is to double-check your rack State behaviors so that Target is checked, as Dave pointed out to me the other day! Although I did get it to work by using one binding and changing the program number and saving a different number on each state, another thing you could try is to have two bindings, the first with program number one, the second for program number 2. Then just disable/X the one you want muted. And reverse it for the next state.

I’ll try to take a look tomorrow and see how it’s working for me when closed.


#18

Thanks. I’ll do some more playing around using your suggestions.


#19

Hey Lorne, yes mine works when MG is closed and switches patches correctly. Here’s what I ended up with:

Now that I’m using GGate all I really need is for one patch to load on MG… my new “default” patch is PC 3, which has all the settings I described earlier. So it’s triggered only on Song load.

But if I eventually do need another patch I already have a binding ready, for PC 2. In this example it’s disabled, and it’s a Song State. But when I select the next Song State it’s enabled, and the first binding, Song On Load, is disabled.


So I use Song States to choose which binding I need. I did try simply changing the PC # for each State but I got inconsistent results. It SHOULD work, but it wasn’t so I tried this workaround. And now that I’ve decided I really only need the one patch on MG and will do all my MG processing outboard, it became a moot point for me. We’ll see how that goes, but I won’t be surprised if I need to use some other MG patches down the road.

BTW here’s how I use the input rack volume in conjunction with MG. I guess my guitar’s output was too strong for MG, so I ended up at -13 as a good all around level for me. If you still need to use MG’s gate at 9 oclock, reducing this may help. Or not! It’s certainly a finicky beast. :grinning:


Tom


#20

Interesting. I will build on that and see what I get. I basically just want Rack states which will trigger the MG patches. Should be straightforward enough.