I have been using the UVI Workstation a while and loading Ravenscroft, Super V and B5 sample sets. I have a rack made for each instrument. I use the B5 a great deal now and had customized the rack for it to have state controlled draw-bar and settings changes allowing fast changes. The state behavior check-boxes to achieve this are set in the behavior panel for the UVI Workstation used to load the B5. Now here’s what I am am having trouble with it … I decided to create a rack for each organ type offered. I created the first rack with states using the C3 69 model and wanted to make a B3 rack with switchable states as well. The second rack I created does not have the check-boxes available for the draw-bars so the state changing is unavailable. Since this is all tied to the UVI workstation I guess you can only have one instance of it with the same set of samples and scripting that can be controlled by a C3 rack at one time. Has anybody had this happen and is there a workaround? Can I only have 1 instance of this case use? Any help or advice on this question would be welcome. Also while I have been using this same rack live for a while now I noticed that if I load a pre-load setlist the same rack will inadvertently load the default drawbar patch even though my state was set to a different setting. After changing to a song that uses a different state and then switching back to the first it corrects and puts up the settings originally stored with the state. Anyone seeing this behavior? Thanks for listening and have a good one.
Maybe because multiple instances of UVI? Have you experimented (even tho it would be massive) with different organ models in one rack? I have never tried using UVI in different racks on same song (if that is what you are doing) so I couldn’t address that, but I will experiment with it and see what I get.
Just setup a B5 rack with B3, C3, and A100. Each one was in a separate state within the rack. The only way I could get this to work was to select “entire state” in state behavior box. I was able to save different models with different states. It is a slow load though. Maybe 5-10 seconds. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info Corky, after your post I tried that out and it works every time with the delay. I think you’re right about the multiple instances of UVI WS. I think the state behavior link information must be stored with the plugin cache? Anyway I’ll keep investigating …
Glad it worked for you! Keep me informed.
I have looked into this further and can report that the behavior is, I believe, explainable. The UVI with the B5 loaded and residing in a rack can only be paired to the control cc’s in UVI/B5 once. If I create a new linked rack and try use UVI/B5 again it won’t remember the state changes I create and the ability to re-establish the missing automation links is not there any more in the State Behaviors list with it’s check boxes. I assume it’s because they are already used by the other rack. (likely to avoid conflicts). So I found out you can change the model type without “Entire Bank” because that is also a checkbox under the state behavior list but no matter what you do it takes a while to load the different Sample Sets, so I will list them in sequence (the C3 list followed by the B3 list in the same rack) because once you switch organ type you can fast switch the draw bars and settings fast. Still I must report that the problem about the initial use of this combination. The UVI/B5 rack once made does not load the correct state on the first load of a song using it from a set list. It displays that it has changed the state and shows that in in that state as far as Cantabile 3 is concerned but instead loads whatever the last state was before a shutdown. To prove it I did this test:
- I recreated the B5 rack from scratch in case my original was corrupted
- I had 4 or 5 different rack states I used in the songs in the list and some songs with no organ rack but piano rack instead and had the set list always opens to song one with just a piano patch
- I select a 4up drawbar rack state in example song A and save song
- I select a 3up drawbar rack state in example song B and save song
- I lock all rack states to prevent unwanted overwriting
- the last song (song B) I am on at shutdown has a 3up working and loaded and i shut down Cantabile 3
- I restart Cantabile 3 and the first piano song comes up in the set list
- i select Song A with 4up patch but instead of the 4up state I get the 3up state that i had on the previous shutdown
- i change to a different song with a 3up and then back to the song with the 4 up state and now it loads the 4up properly
- I repeat the test except switched around the rack states and songs and got the same outcome
maybe @brad can help me on this one as is it presents a level of uncertainty to using UVI/B5 combination in a rack with multiple states
Thanks again for the help and your ears …
Edit: I also found it does the same thing even if i use no set list and just load the songs separately
With the original B5, I started using my settings on the plug itself as a preset. B5 would not save settings within Cantabile. I tried with both racks and as a simple plugin. It was frustrating. When B5 V2 came out, I continued to use it as a plug, not in a rack. It saves my settings with the song, and any changes I make during the song is automated with MIDI. Since I use it mostly on stage, I only change models and leslies/amps with a song change. When using live, the changes in models would be very subtle, really not noticeable by audience or musicians on stage. I tried using a model change as a simple plug, but the 11 second delay as it loads makes it a complete deal breaker on using it as a state change as well…
Thanks for the update, and keep me informed. I am going to keep on experimenting, but I think this is really a UVI Workstation thing. I believe you may be able to make this work if you delve into the inner workings of the Workstation. I really haven’t spent any time learning it’s nuances, so hopefully there is a way to set it up there.
OK! Found a way! On UVI Workstation, there is a “Part 1” in the upper left corner. UVI lets you load 4 instruments at a time ( 1, 2, 3, and 4 ). I loaded B5 into each part, and, on each part, I had a different model loaded. If you change “parts” the the change is instant. No waiting on model to load. Now on to a way to automate it.
Corky, did you mean to say “entire bank”? I don’t see an option for “entire state”. I’m also struggling with how to set up rack states using UVI/B5…
Have you tried using host automation with B5? It works much better for rack states than entire bank. It takes a while to set up, but I think it is worth it especially for the draw bars.
Thanks Paul. You are probably right…will experiment when I get a chance.
My bad. I did mean entire bank. Dave and I were discussing a way to change organ models on the fly, and I found that manipulating the UVI host, it could be done without an 11 second load time. As far as using in rack, I find it much easier to use as a single plugin. Even if I use “host automation”, changing rack states takes as much as 20 seconds to load. I also used “parts” on UVI post as changes in states, but it responds the same way. The only “immediate” change was to change “parts” on the UVI gui.With that said, I will be experimenting with it today ( been gigging this weekend) to see what else I can discover, and report back. This is why I am using controller for drawbar changes and other “on the fly” changes on plugin NOT in a state. Hope that explains it. It is my intention to use this in a rack eventually, but I believe this is going to to happen in a way through the UVI host.
just did some testing on this. It seems to be possible to have fast switching with more than one instance of B5. What I did:
- load 2 models (f.e. B3 / C3) into UVI workstation and setup different MIDI channels for each
- do host automation settings for each controller of EACH model. Strange here: you will see identical names occouring on 2 different automations without an indication of the model
I did this for 3 or 4 controllers only and was able to call up completely different settings for both models in one state without using entire banks. Switching time was fast.
Please keep in mind this was only a fast scetch and maybe there are other problems I didn’t see on the fly. Also: the number of host automation parameters is still limited to 128 - means implementing 4 independant instances decreases the number of mappable parameters for each model dramatically. But maybe useful as a hint for further investigation.
Thank you so much for the info. Will add this to my experiment list!
Well I figured this one out and it was an operator error. I had saved the rack “rack as” and in the process copied the automation settings to my second rack. So I created one from scratch and low and behold all my automation links were there. So now i can make different racks for each organ model and pre-load them instead of channel stacking them in the UVI workstation. Both ways work but I think I can manage my patches better using C3.
I reported this to Brad and he has already corrected the issue with UVI, they should be releasing an update to the UVI workstation that fixes this soon. Thanks Brad
Thanks for the update Dave. Also thanks to Brad for the contact with UVI. I lost a dear friend a few days ago and it has slowed my experiment with B5. Hope to get back to it soon. Like I mentioned before, I believe the key to using it in racks is totally in the UVI host. I can use use it as a simple plugin and save the settings. Can also save presets in the B5 GUI. However, states in a rack do not play very nice. Hopefully UVI will come up with a solution before my hands get too greasy working on this thing.
If you haven’t checked out the new presets under the “current” tab in presets, it is well worth the effort. Two of the best players in the business put some sweet ones together. Look at “Smoke” for an amazing Jon Lord sound, “Love Happiness” for that great Charlie Hodges sound (AL Green/Stax).
I am sorry for your loss. I have a lost a few loved ones lately and it is very sobering but we carry on. I too have been busy experimenting with B5 and UVI workstaion and have been figuring out how I want to use it. I agree about the presets, Wow! I have been making progress on it and apreciate your input and suggestions.
All the Best,
I have seen some of your input on B5, and was wondering how you were using it in a rack. I would welcome any suggestions from your amazing mind !
Flattery will get you everywhere
Seriously: I haven’t used B5 in Cantabile in a while (VB-3 is my main go-to-Hammond there). But my B5 rack is pretty simple, and it’s based on @dave_dore’s principles around host automation
- it contains just one instance of UVI Workstation with my favorite Hammond & Leslie configuration pre-loaded
- I don’t use presets for UVI workstations; I stay on one preset, making all my changes to the sound via the host automation feature.
- I’ve assigned all drawbars and other relevant performance controls (vibrato, distortion, reverb, perc, click, …) to host automation parameters. Then I set these parameters to state dependent in Cantabile
- I have left the main volume pedal OUT from the state dependent parameters - I want volume to carry over from one organ setting to the next
- now I simply set my B5 to whatever setting I want and update the respective rack state
I only use one organ model in this rack and stay with it; having multiple hammond organs on stage would be a bit of overkill - one is definitely enough ;-). And automating all drawbars and other parameters via rack states is definitely enough variety for me…
Thanks Torsten. I seem to have good results just staying with a single organ and leslie setup, and changing drawbars and other parameters with my controller. Was curious how you were using the plug so I could tap into your creative way of routing. With the great help on this site, I realized that some of the difficult things I was trying to achieve, really wasn’t that difficult at all. I also realized that some things require a detailed schematic…at least in my case!
All The Best To You