Pre Loading doesn't work with Waves Electric 88


#1

I’ve tested waves electric 88 and I like it but it seams that pre loading doesn’t work with this plug in. I have a list with a lot of plugin and no other one have the same issue. Anytime I recall a song with electric 88 it loose time (3-4sec) to load sample…very strange with pre loading set list on.
Have someone the same issue?


#2

Hi,
I have these Waves VST’s as well but do not use them in preload, so I can’t check that; it does make a difference if you use the SD or the HD version of the samples, and if you have them on an SSD or on a slower disk. On SSD even the HD samples load pretty quickly.


#3

Thanks for your replay. I have last generation NVME SSD. I of corse use HD sample.
May you test in preload mode to verify if the problem is plug in?
I use sampled plugin with big sample too like hollywood pop brass and I have no kind of problem in switching time


#4

Are you using the VST2 or VST3 version?


#5

Not sure if any state or preset changes are involved here? If you change the plugin snapshot or an “Entire Bank” plugin state between songs, a sample-based plugin will usually re-load its samples - that’s the nature of such plugins.

If you have the plugin inside a rack and you keep the same state / snapshot loaded, it should not need to re-load its samples. With sample-based plugins, I try to only use the state behavior for individual VST parameters to create different configs as rack states to avoid re-loading the sample set.

Unfortunately, I don’t have the waves electric, so can’t test this here.

Cheers,

Torsten


#6

Hi Torsten thanks a lot. I had only one state. It take time to switch from any other plugin to electric 88. Electric 88 is the only one with this strange behaviour Now I can’t test Ant solution because waves electric 88 was in free 1 week demo and now it is expired. If you wanna test you should have 1 week free demo too to test it.
Best regards


#7

I need ti check it tonight at home


#8

Where can I see the kind of VST2 or VST3…I see anly a dll


#9

After you insert the plugin, right click the plugin name to get this dialogue:

Click plugin information at the bottom of the menu.

It should say either VST2 or VST3. I don’t have that particular plugin, but something similar should come up.

  • Paul

#10

To my right click this “information” is not listed, I think because the free demo time (1 week) is expired…so I can’t check it sorry.
I like this plug in but without a good solution to load time I will not buy it.


#11

I have the Waves Electric 88. Give me a little time, and I will test it on my machine. I haven’t used it in awhile, but I don’t remember any problems with it. I will check back in later.

Regards

Corky


#12

Thanks Corky,
My configuration was in preload setlist and when I switch from other song to the one with electric 88 (HD sample) it take 3-4sec to switch…usually in preload setlist the switch is almost zero time for other plugin…
Best regards
Andrea


#13

Ok. Is good to know that.


#14

Andrea

I made a set list with 10 songs. One song was with E-88 in a song by itself. I also created a song with several plugs, and put E-88 alone into a rack. I saved pre-load, exited setlist and songs, then loaded the setlist, which automatically pre-loaded. After pre-load, I went down the setlist. Everything was immediate in loading.

I watched the 88 GUI in both instances. The song with 88 plugin at song level was an immediate load, but the 88 was showing a 3 second load in the GUI, even though the song loaded immediately.

The 88 in the rack was immediate in song load, and GUI load indicator. So…the 88 is quicker loading in a rack, then by itself at song level.

As @Torsten indicated, this stuff happens with sample plugins. Some Kontakt libraries are notorious about load times. I have other plugs that will load into the song quickly, but take a few seconds to load samples. I just let 3 seconds pass before I touch the keys. With those types, I let the band hold the song ending as I load the next song. They never know a difference, lol. :grin:

The positive thing here, is using 88 in a rack is advantageous. Also, @Torsten mentioned using states in the rack to change settings would also make things work very well. I have most of my plugs in racks. It just makes things easier. Give it a try, and if you need more help with it, I am usually online.

Hope this helps.


#15

Thanks Corky that’s exately what happened to me.
I was not clear in my explanation. The song switch immediatly and also electric 88 plugin is visible just switched the song but it take about 3sec to load sample…that’s why I talk about that it is not possible to do a istantaneous switch. For example I need to switch between a song with brass sampled and song with electric 88. Botch cantabile songs are recalled from pc from my keyboard and should be “standard” program that I need to recall when I want so to me it is strectly necessary that switch will be done in zero time
Most of the samped plug in switch without any latency time problem caused from loading sample that’s because “preloading” work proprely. With electric 88 preload seams don’t work well in terms that samples are not preloaded.
That’s why should be possible to test all the plug in with demo…it is not the case but if I will spend 150€ for a plug in that is not able to preload sample to me that I use it only for live that are money in the trash.
Thaks for your feedback.
Best regards
Andrea


#16

I did some test yesterday evening, but I see Corky also did it. I also typically use my VSTs in Racks and with States to change preset. With the Waves I had no strange issue. It behaves the same as other plugins that use larger samplesets.
When you change preset/state in the Waves EP, and if it is uses large samples, it might take a second to load, but not longer.
I keep all my main sample sets on my C-SSD drive, which is also my boot drive, and that helps considerably

Have fun


#17

p.s. Not sure about your plans, but don’t spend $ 150 on Waves 88. Many times it can be obtained for 29 USD. Try out also alternatives maybe, such as Air-Velvet, AAS Lounge Lizard, and XLN-Addictive Keys. And I am a fan of Keyscape, which for me still outperforms all others.


#18

Oh Thanks I know that is at 29€…my referement was general.
For example keyscape is 350€…what happen if I will buy it and I discover that to switch in realtime from an EP to AP it take 3sec? During live this is very critic things.
A lot of people talk very wekk about keyscape and omnisphere…are the song switch between two cantabile song that have each one keyscape different sond without latency or there is some delay? …of course with SSD hd and very good PC
Thanks in advance.
Andrea


#19

Andrea,

If you are talking about switching from acoustic piano to e-piano inside the same song, it is to your benefit to have each one in a separate rack, that way they are loaded, and you merely disable one, and enable the other with a state switch. Very easy to do.

Switching between songs is immediate for me, but I had to learn the hard way to use as many modeled plugs as possible. Most load instantly, and quite honestly, in a live situation, a 200gb sampled piano usually sounds no better than a 25mb modeled one. If you are in a recording studio, that is when to bring the big boys in. If you really can’t endure a 2 second load between two particular songs, you might want to combine the 2 songs into one. The one thing that convinced me to use modeled plugs, was seeing major stars using them on stage.

I like the 88, but I stopped using it, because there are smaller footprint plugs out there I like better, and most of them can be edited into some nice sounding instruments. As @adderoo says, spend the money on what works for you. I have spent thousands on plugs I like, but don’t use in live performance. Another thing, if you haven’t already, make sure your computer is at maximum performance using Brads Glitch Free document https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/.

I bought Waves years ago, and really do not care for the way they use a core program to cycle the plugs. It delays loading, and quite honestly, their plugs are not really to my liking. Just my opinion.

I actually started using Keyscape lately, and with my recently purchased refurbished Win 10 computers, they load quicker than I expected, but doubt I will use them live. I will definitely use them in the studio though.

The trick to this is using racks, preloading, and max performance from your computer. I haven’t been able to try Keyscape on stage (covid-19), but I do know that it loads quicker than E-88. Again, I was shocked. I am also using SSD drives, so that is no doubt a huge benefit.

One other thing…I tested the E-88 on my Win 7 machine with a standard hard drive. An SSD would possibly make a difference. I am busy today, but if I get a chance, I will test it on my newer equipment and get back to you.

Corky


#20

Thanks Corky. I everytime use rack and I create “standard” cantabile song that are recalled from program change sent from my NS3. Of course I can’t do a song with inside both AP and EP rack because when I send PC from my keeyboard to fast switch song it send PC and necesserly I need to change cantabile song (one standard song is for AP and is recalled from PC1 and other standard cantabile song is for EP and are recalled from PC2). Of course I preload the setlist. I use also other big sampled plugin like holliwood pop brass but the time switching is closed to zero so for my point of view is electric 88 that have problem. The sound of electric 88 is not bad in some presets and for 29€ is good but only if it can fast switch…if not…is not for me :–)
My worrie is about spending 350€ for keyscape and have the same problem…I can’t test it because spectrasonic doesn’t give us a demo trial.
Thanks