I'm so really sorry 😢

That I didn’t work with cantabile earlier!

Brad, thx mate, i did i nice concert with stable software. You don’t know how much peace of mind you give me to be able to work with software that you can count on.

All went very smooth, i could even have a return for my in ears and monitor everything very clear.
Just perfect and full control and security.

One thing I did miss was a main level meter where i could see how hot the output signal was, since i was in live modus. But apart from that, the software is a breeze.

Thank you Brad!
(a 1000 times)


Why not make a master rack with one of these in it. It’s free.

Hm it’s an idea, but i guess i have to add this to the output of the background rack to see it from the main master output?

read this first. You CAN route to Background Rack

Audio doesn’t route to the background rack.
Its output also doesn’t route to other racks, as far as I can see.
Try creating an output rack that you include in all your songs.
The fader stays where you last left it.
You can include any other ‘mastering’ effects you like in there - such as compression or eq.
It works perfectly well.

Looks like you’ve already been into this here, but I think Brad is recommending making your own top level racks.

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Yes I know that, but at this moment I don’t really see the need for inserting compression or EQ.
So a simple meter like on the racks on the master slider would do wonders.

I started a topic for that.
Do you recommend any mastering on live synths?
Which one?

It’s up to you. :slight_smile:
I was just saying that some folks like to have a master rack and the fader would seem to be as good a candidate for that location as any.

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Hi @So_Godly - good to hear, glad it went well and thanks too for all your feedback. :thumbsup:

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You’ll recall the discussion we had in this thread:

This shows my master rack, which contains my typical master chain. Among this:

  • EQ for both of my separate outputs
  • Automated master volume for each output
  • a master limiter for each output (to avoid distortion when pushing levels too far up)

Also, it contains a separate LUFS meter for each output. I only use these for setting up levels in the studio, but of course you could also use any metering plugin and display it when playing live. You could even create a binding to show the metering GUI at the touch of a button on your keyboard/controller

This master rack needs to be included in every individual song file, since no audio connections to the background rack are available.

TBH, I have little use for metering when playing live - I tend to set my levels when creating songs, so that everything is under control, nice and tidy. Then I simply need to watch my master volume fader - as long as that one is pretty much centered, no need to worry about levels. And my other volume meter is on pretty much all the time: my in-ear monitors! When levels get too high, I get a splitting headache :scream:




I believe So_Godly is dealing with a guitarist who keeps upping his volume - and we all know how guitarists are!

(No offense meant to guitarists, but, you know yourselves…) :wink:


As are drummers also!

Yeah -but Cantabile is probably not the place to goose the level at that time. When the stage volume goes up it’s time to turn up the volume on the interface or a mixer. (or tell the gtr to turn down to deafening ":-))

Aha aha aha!
Trueeeee that!
So by the end of the concert my levels were slightly altered. Level in the monitors between guitars and voice were completely changed, voice was far below.
Also i like to have manual control over the faders for dynamic play in songs.
This is minimum mostly but with loud guitarist it can vary.

Thx Torsten, some Q:

  • Why EQ and on seperate outputs? EQ is done by the external mixer?
  • Can you explain Automated ?
  • Has the master limiter build in C3 other function?
  • What’s LUFS ?
    Do you think some compression is needed on stage to have that sound within range?

Hi there,

  • why EQ / separate outputs: This is for occasions when I play through a simple Stereo Out interface --> guitar, keys and break music run through a single stereo pair. Then, having separate EQs on keys & guitar make it easy to correct a little boomyness here or some boxyness there - our mix guy can’t do this at the desk when everything comes through one stereo pair

  • Automated: mainly, volume is bound to a fader on my master keyboard :wink: Plus, some minimal automation: at the beginning of each set, I have an “init” song that sends a CC command (identical to the one from my fader) to the master rack, setting master gain for guitar and keys to +0 dB

  • The built-in so-called “master limiter” in C3 isn’t really a limiter. It is simply a smooth “peak shaver” - it only cuts off the signal peaks more smoothly than just by truncating, but essentially it is a “saturator”. Opposed to this, a true limiter reduces the overall volume, i.e. also the parts of the waveform BELOW the peak get reduced when it is active.Try it - feed a too-hot signal into the “master limiter” - you will hear the saturation / distortion effects.

  • LUFS stands for Loudness Units relative to Full Scale. Loudness Units is metric defined by the EBU to standardize the loudness of broadcast programs and avoid the “loudness wars”. Since peak levels are useless to calibrate the loudness of my sounds, I use LUFS for volume setting. It is a bit more powerful than pure RMS levels (frequency balanced, multiple averaging windows, …). But in the end, the final level-setting still needs to be by ear. Fundamentally, I try to set all my keys / guitar levels in advance of a gig, so our sound person can mainly be concerned with getting the mix right and not worry about piercing brass sounds that are far too loud for the song, or a solo sound that’s just too quiet.

  • I don’t believe in “master compression” for my keys or guitar sounds; whenever I need compression for the specific sound on a song, I build it into the sound, but in general, I enjoy dynamics on stage. But of course, the pre-requisite for this is to have your individual song-specific sound levels under control ;-). If someone needs a compressor because all their individual sounds’ volumes are all over the place, that’s a completely different story :wink:




Out of interest, which limiter do you use, and how do have it configured?


Wise words ! Thx Torsten

FabFilter Pro-C with a high ratio, fast attack, slower release. Didn’t use Pro-L for latency reasons; most brick-wall limiters introduce significant latency, which is OK in recording but not for live usage, I’m willing to accept the occasional clip / overshoot in return for less latency when playing live.



Thanks Torsten, I’ll give that a try - I’ve been looking to add a separate limiter to my output rack.



Your comment about the background rack helped me fix a long standing problem I have been having. Just wanted to thank you for indirectly supplying a solution.


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