Essential requirements for "Live Mode"

A post was split to a new topic: Building Live Mode

Agree - jmo, but I run an iPad running the chart reader, and C3 on laptop running everything else. Seems to me, to be the perfect combo! It is WAY too awkward to try and run charts all your music on the same device, believe me I have tried, MANY times…which is why I have evolved to the present setup. jm2c haha!

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I do display leadsheets with current Show Notes feature. Don’t know what I’d do without it.

On the ipad I run Unrealbook software for the charts. An advantage of this app is it can send midi messages (including sysex strings) via midi over any channel to any external hardware. It can do this when a chart is loaded automatically, and with “user-defined Hot Spots” where a simple touch of the spot sends whatever is set in it. These can be activated at any time.

Once I get me head fully around C3, I will set up various program changes within UnrealBook to control synths in C3. I still stress that imo, running a separate device for charts is vital!

What I’m totally missing in LiveMode is a view of current controller-state, especially Volume/Expression.

This could either be

  • in a seperate tab where “Show notes - Routes - Binding” is now
  • or be part of the Montor-Tab in left side-panel.

It should be configurable to show different controllers (07, 11), different Midi-inputs (or all), show range from 0-20 or 0-127.
Also this should be quite big, or adjustable to fill half the screen.

The reason for beeing so essential to me is, that I’m mainly in theater-business.
Here we usually have loads of differend sounds and exact remarks for specific volume they should be played in (which changes of course).

If it’s not clear what I’m thinking of, I’m happy to give examples!

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Good suggestion - it aims to solve the same problem as something I suggested here. My guess is that when Brad gets chance to implement something like either of these suggestions, it’ll be bigger, better and more flexible :relaxed:

Incidentally, remember that you can pre-program things like volume levels into song states in Cantabile, so you can step through exact volume changes, without having to dial them in with a physical controller (unless you need the effect of actual fades in/out). And even with fades, you can program song states to allow fading between specific start/end controller values (i.e. use the whole range of your hardware controller, and it’ll map to a specific range to fade over).


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Thanks @Jeff_Frohner

I’m aware of this kind of requirement and it’s one of a few things that are all related. Sometimes these things just need to sit and simmer for a while before a good solution pops out. :slight_smile:


Doesn’t this really address the entire issue?
Does one actually want to be moving sliders into place for precise volume targets during a live performance, or does one want to hit a button and have it be there.
Couldn’t naming a state with appropriate information be the simple and readily available answer?

No, not my requirements.
I need to have a visible controller-state to be able to perform a controlled volume-swell from 60 to 100, two bars later go back to 80, …
With a seperate state could end up with 20 states per sound (only for volume changes) and - more important - the volume changes would be sudden, instead of smooth musical fades.

Jeff, that is precise indeed. This is why I love Cantabile, and used to do this kind of maneuver even in Cantabile 2 - most certainly available in C3.
We’re talking about a very exact moves between CC values - not only instant, but swells and fades.
Not so easy to do on a controller slider or knob within a couple of bars. Easy to overshoot and arrive in the wrong place.
Understanding this, one is looking for a reliable method which ensures all targets are reached with certainty. Does this, below, have any appeal? Media player has a selection of midi files containing required controller values. One click of a button on my keyboard controller, and the values are sent, accurately and more reliably than can be achieved, especially under pressure, by hand.
As you can tell, this could be instant or a slow fade - whatever the midi file is instructing.
Just some food for thought:

PS - I still think a live controller monitor would be cool


Nice idea - but I think Jeff would need a whole load of such media players in order to handle the controller gymnastics he needs to be able to do, and separately trigger them. Seems like the ultimate solution, if it were to be automated, would be a kind of sequencer for controller values, with a kind of definable portamento effect to specify the fade times.

But otherwise, just a really nice big clear indication of the current controller value, and let Jeff do the fades :relaxed:

What would be useful would be to be able to choose where the data for this readout comes from - i.e. not necessarily just raw incoming controller data, but the data after scaling and jump prevention in routes. It almost feels like another object type would be required - a kind of live feedback object, where you route MIDI to it, choose what aspect of the MIDI to display, and it appears in some clear form in Live Mode.


Pleasy have a look at CCStepper, this little vst does exactly what you need. It is a (up to) 64 step sequencer wich outputs CC messages with great options to start and sync it to the tempo you need. I realize every automated control curve that i need. The best: It’s fro free and comes 32bit and 64bit.

Greetings, Tom


Hey Neil
And how many large CC displays would be required?
If there’s a ton of stuff requiring this kind of address then you have a real logistic issue.
And you don’t really need a ton of Media players.
What you do need is the midi files.

Hi Ade,

I think from what Jeff has said, he’s just controlling volume, so only one CC display would be required.

The reason I thought multiple media players would be required was that Jeff needs to be doing multiple different fade types within a single song state. I’m not sure that could be achieved with a single media player, unless you can dynamically manipulate the currently selected MIDI file using bindings, which is starting to get fiddly.

However it looks like Tom’s suggestion of using CCStepper would do the trick, if Jeff was interested in automating it.

Either way, I still think there’s still good justification for being able to display some selected controller values in Live Mode, for cases where the user can’t automate, or would prefer not to. In my case for example, I generally do fade ins/outs, but using jump prevention, and sometimes I find I need to know if I’m actually modifying the controller at all or not (i.e. if jump prevention is keeping the controller locked). Visual feedback of the controller (post jump prevention) would be valuable in that case.

@brad, maybe it could be a special type of show note, that appears as a horizontal bar graph showing one selected controller value, along with the textual value of the controller. That way it could be shown/hidden for different parts of songs. Although I’m not clear how you’d select the source of the controller data (eg raw from the MIDI input, or after processing by bindings etc).


For how many destinations?

You can do a lot with one midi file

Well indeed, potentially one per sound he wishes to control the volume of…

sorry i slammed a quick edit in the above ":slight_smile:

Indeed…but nethertheless, Tom’s suggestion of using CCStepper looks even better, as you can trigger different CC “sequences” just from note presses.

But we’re straying from Jeff’s original point about having live feedback for controllers, which is a useful thing in its own right. Perhaps he’d rather control these things manually anyway - it’s potentially easier to get it right manually and adaptively, than to have to trigger automated fades at exactly the right moment.

OK - so how does that begin to look.
Fact is, you can only keep visual track of so much visual data and play - especially when, apparently, you have two bars to make a critical gain change and then back to another value.
And seeing the CC stepper above, I agree that it’s also an option. Of course, ONE midi file can handle 16 channels of data - with each having a ton of controllers available.
If nothing else, we are demonstrating that Cantabile, coupled with some useful plugins and midi files can place extremely sophisticated and ACCURATE control at your fingertips, and achieve changes that one human cannot.
It’s all good stuff.
And - a midi monitor enhancement ( for that it is all it is) which can display the CC of your choice from the source of choice - why not?

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Hi Everybody,

thanks for all the hints and tricks to automate volume-changes.
I’ve already learned, that cantabile is perfect for doing such things.
But, alone, this is not what I asked/wished for.

In my world the player has control over the control-changes (though some automation here and there could be useful indeed) and needs a visual feedback about what he is doing.
This would mainly be volume-control (cc11, cc7), but could also be useful for cutoff-frequency, or leslie-state, …what ever.

My suggestion is:
Have a visual thing like that

This could be in a sub-Tab just like “Load & Info” is now (and scaleable)

  • make it routeable (so everyone can choose where it’s feeded from) - just like onscreen keyboard is now
  • make it adjustable to show 0-20 or 0-127
  • make it adjustable to select which cc to listen for
  • maybe add another control-viewer for on/off states (sustain, leslie,…)

…and sorry for that odd “screenshot” - I’m not a grafix-guy…