OK, some more testing of VB3-II against IK B-3X, Blue3 and VB3-1…
For my taste, it is just a bit too “gnarly” for my typical layering sounds, so that’s where Blue3 will remain my go-to variant.
For more dominant organ sounds, the gnarliness is more of an asset (unless you’re into smooth jazz…), so it could be an option. BUT: the one thing where VB3-II can’t beat the IK beast is the ability to drive the Leslie from a relatively clean sound into snarling overdrive with the swell pedal. VB3’s overdrive is a bit too static for my taste and doesn’t react to the swell pedal with the same agility as B-3X does. And the VB3 overdrive is just a bit too “woolly” for my taste, compared to the more “present” overdrive in B-3X.
As to Blue3: organ-sound-wise, it could be a good option for lead type organs (I like the ability to fine-tune the drawbar profiles), but its overdrive is even more static than VB3-II; and I don’t really like their overdrive colors overall…
Again, personal tastes, but for me it’s back to B-3X for “lead” type organ sounds and Blue3 (and some VB3v1) for layer and pad-type sounds. Not sure if I can find a sweet spot for VB3-II…
"the one thing where VB3-II can’t beat the IK beast is the ability to drive the Leslie from a relatively clean sound into snarling overdrive with the swell pedal. "
My biggest 1st impression was playing it live 2 days ago at a gig. It really didn’t cut thru. but I was using the default preset, without my tweaking it. The next day (yesterday), I tried a few presets at a 2nd live gig. Still not to my liking. Tonight’s gig will have a little tweaking, so I will see if anything changes. I am still using B-3X, VB3 1.4, and Waterfall live.
I plan to get deep into VB3 2023 tomorrow, as I will have some home time. I also expect GSI to have an update very soon. Bugs always happen with many v1.0.0. new vsts.
I’ve decided I’m not interested in the new Leslie setup. But I’m liking the new engine and original Leslie model. Both Leslies still have a squirrelly rotor sound but v2 is better in that regard.
It’s all reminding me all over again that nothing quite has it 100% nailed. I’ll probably wind up using B-3X about 75% of the time and VB-3 the other 25%.
I was using the last release of VB before this new one with the IK Leslie. I was moving over to B3-X when the Floyd band imploded, so currently do not have much need for an organ right now.
But I guess pairing the new VB with the IK Leslie would still be a good option.
HA! Would ya believe it!
For me, this is starting to look more like walking into any number of ‘traditional’ recording studios. which would have a B3 or C3 and Leslie as part of the in house setup, and finding that one sounds better than another, either because of the instrument/:Leslie, or the ability of the engineer, or the player for that matter, to produce the desired sound.
I think we have demonstrated, beyond any shadow of a doubt for me, that the Leslie simulator is a far more significant factor in conveying authenticity to the sound.
And, as Sergio pointed out,
I think, in my great ignorance, that it is better to find a VST that goes with a certain song or piece, choosing the VST that is considered most suitable.
Sergio
The VB3 mk1 has been given a new lease of life by the Waterfall Leslie.
Their organ through the VB3 mk1 Leslie would not enjoy such a compliment from this corner.
Hey Ade, I have always thought that our Hammond vst, whatever it is, when subjected to a recording room, will take on a heavenly sound.
I say more, those who hear it will think that this, yes, is the real B3!!!
I use the various B-3X, VB3, Blue3, B5, Waterfall and also others, each can be great for this or this other Song.
I usually use B-3X for my Songs, but not necessarily, depending on the Song I decide to use other organ vst’s, which I think are more suitable.
I also happen to use two together: B-3x as Upper and Blue3 as Lower, for example, is for my taste, a good assortment.
But I could give other examples of how I use my organ vst.
And of course these choices of mine are still subjective.
Everyone definitely has their own sensibility, musical character.
For sure, especially if there is no reference, by which I mean a real B3 to compare head to head. So, I’ll throw this into the conversation;
If one is in the enviable position of having the real thing, would it ever occur to that person that a different B3 might improve the sound of a particular piece of music?
I very much doubt it. Personally, I never complained about any studio/rental Hammond, or heard any of my contemporaries make the kind of distinction we are bringing to our discussion of these instruments. I would suggest that it is because each of these virtual instruments may have some kind of intrinsic weakness that gives itself away in a given musical context, that we are so fascinated by this pursuit.
I know this is a bit ‘apples and oranges’, but think about string libraries. We know that in some situations we can fool the listener, but in other situations, a library can fall to pieces because it simply cannot articulate with authenticity. One must perform to the limitations imposed by the library.
A Hammond organ should be a lot easier to replicate than a string library because it has far less timbral range, and yet here we are trying to define the ‘magic’ which removes doubt.
I’m suggesting that the virtual B3/Leslie combo which can play in any arena and maintain its authenticity is the one. Is there one from our current crop?
I created a Linked Rack, with the help of Dave Doré where the main instrument is the B-3X and with the different Leslies to address, which I have available, via Rack States .
I created this LKR to understand the sounds of the Leslies I have.
Basically the first selection is about the B-3X with its Leslie and in succession (but with the internal Leslie B-3X in brake) the Leslies I have (TR5, GSi Rotary, Waterfall Rotary, etc.).
Again, sounds are subjective, etc.
I like TR5 and Waterfall Rotary more than the others, but with appropriate adjustments you can combine what you want here as well (Fred might like Jon Lord-style distortion with TR5…).
I have tried combining VB3 2.0 with TR5: it is a very simple test, without corrections, but I promise myself to do some testing.
I made a test by keeping the VB3’s Leslie in Brake and inserted the TR5 Leslie: the result seems good, different from the internal one, and it seems to come close as a sound rendering to the B-3X.
This was a quick test, just to make sense of my tests of the VB3
Everyone’s tastes are different, especially playing different styles. In the pre-digital years, Hammonds, and pianos were a usual convenience in the venues. They were all different sounding at every venue. We learned, from experience, how to dial in our favorite tone with what we had. Fortunately, we have many models available to us in this plug.
I am going to start this with Generator Models(edit>Organ Parameters) The default is VB3CE2. It can be piercing on the higher drawbars, but instead of getting caught up in the Drawbar Trims, I would suggest a different Generator Model…such as B3 1956, which is not as “in your face” like VB3CE2. You could also try the V.1b Leslie Cab.
I will probably wish I did all this as a YouTube by the time I get through. There are many things to explore, and I am planning some audio examples, blind tests, and presets soon.
I won’t to go on about all the nuances of all the Hammond VSTs, Corky and a many others here do that very, very well. I also don’t use many of the important features of the B3/C3, like the vibrato-scanner (please don’t shoot me). .
Besides, every Hammond has its own character, and personal taste always wins IMHO.
So I am probably not the best candidate to have the famous last word on the subject!
That said, I don’t dislike the VB3II 2023, it sounds good and (thanks Guido), it’s not processor hog.
But, honestly, my favorites are B-3X and Waterfall. Also some organ-Leslie combinations.
I’m listening to Traffic’s “On The Road” so discovering Barry Beckett on B3. I think he’s playing B3 (never heard Winwood playing an expanded B3 palette like that) on the first track “Glad/Freedom Rider” and Winwood is playing piano. You’ve got to love long jams to appreciate this though…
I’m a very happy man since the release of VB3 2023. I’m combining the 2023 Generator (B3 1956) with the old Leslie 1.4 model, and everything is just as it used to be. So for me Waterfall is currently unemployed.
If there is anyone interested in buying Waterfall B3 + Leslie please send me a PM, I’m selling both for 75,- euros (including my iLok account with the authorizations)
Rumours are that there will be a 2.0.1 around end of January, with resize capabilities plus more stuff. But wouldn’t be the first time (nor second … ) that software releases didn’t meet the suggested deadlines …
2.1.0 is actually available for download now, and lo and behold, they did not fix any of the issues we discussed :-(.
Resize is only for the stand-alone version, not VST, and they did not change the behaviour of the sustain pedal, it will switch back to slow, no matter whether it came from slow or stop before going to fast.
My screen is too small for having a plugin this size visible, and I need to see the drawbar settings, as I work with these during the songs, so I’ll stay on 1.1.1 for a little longer.
There are many things to explore, and I am planning some audio examples, blind tests, and presets soon.
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