This posted by GSI:
thanks for pointing us to the video. The crosstalk issue was the main reason I didn‘t like on VB3II as it didn‘t blend into the sound to my mind.
The improvements Guido introduced are terrific (at least for me) and they are the game changer letting me start to substitute the old VB3 now.
What the video shows (again): hammonds are really „complex characters“ and I‘m learning from release to release…
I am just now testing VB3 II v 1.1.1. I am already hearing improvement on this version. There were some additions on the rotary page I am finding interesting as well. The crosstalk did add more realism, although I doubt many people will notice it.
I was extremely disappointed with the original release, as were many others. I think Guido is realizing that , and is trying to get it right. VB3 reigned for so long and releasing a newly designed product as VB3 2, expectations were very high. The rotary is not as good as VB3 1.4. Now that improvements are coming along, I am going through this, one parameter at a time, thinking I might discover greatness. My VB3 1.4 has not been replaced by version 2 in any of my songs yet. I am using version 2 in a couple of newer songs, but with IK Leslie. Will have to see how newest improvements might change my mind.
I just installed VB3 II v 1.1.1 and spent a few hours working on a Chris Hazelton tune called Harlem Groove (trio blues). I set the tone generator to B3 1969, just a bit of drive, IK 122 amp and cab and it sounds quite a bit like what I’m hearing on the recording (except my playing has a way to go ). This update is a pretty big improvement.
I’m calling all drawbar and tone tweakers! My new challenges are ‘Highway Star’ and ‘Sweet Child in Time’ B3 and Amp settings. Any offerings welcome and Thanks in advance. I read elsewhere that no leslie is used, is that true?
WSOP settings work like a charm, Thanks a bunch!!! I chose the 1965 B3 model from VB3II FWIW. Sounds great.
I don’t know how but after this revision I was able to turn off the Generator shaping on the older B3 models. It sounds balanced now as opposed to before where I was using the high range boost option to even the response out. Before that range was wimpy compared to the rest of the keyboard. Could this be related some how? Some form of cancellation maybe? Just curious …
Thanks for the Guido post!
Will supply you with your request shortly (away from my gear). Jon Lord used a Marshall stack mostly and other amps. He went through periods where he used a Leslie. He repeatedly experimented with equipment.
I too am hearing more out of VB3 II. Hoping to post something on it soon. Music has been getting in my way.
Glad it worked for you. Been using those settings for years. WSOP was my recently departed Brother’s favorite song. His wife requested I play it at grave site service, so no B3. I learned it very quickly on guitar, chords and riff simultaneously, and sang it. Never thought that song would ever hold up without the Hammond sound. Great songs will always shine, no matter how played.
Thanks for the info…will look into it.
Highway Star was Marshall all the way. Sweet Child I have to go back and hear- I’m used to the Made In Japan version which was no Leslie, but I think the original version from In Rock did- I have to hear it again, been too long!
Hey Corky, I got around to checking your Leslie sim test. Thanks for putting it together!
Was there any overdrive being applied from the VB3? I only ask because the various simulators seemed to respond quite differently to distortion. For example, ‘B’ has a quite disturbing crackle in the top end. Was that from the sim or the organ?
I used the default setting on VB3 II on everything. The default had a drive setting at 11 o’clock. The “B” example was the UVI Rotary which I set set at 11 o’clock. So it was undoubtedly the UVI. I spent a lot of time on the UVI. I also noticed while testing, the Leslies all responded very differently to distortion, drawbar settings, and key click. What I came away with, is an organ sim will usually work better with it’s own resident Leslie, mainly because that is what the developers created to make the plug sound correct in their ears. This is why VB3 II Leslie sounds terrible with Blue3, and visa-versa. That is why I used Leslie simulators unconnected to an organ sim in the test. The IK Leslie doesn’t seem to change the organ sound like the others. It enhances the original sound, which is what a Leslie is supposed to do. I am not surprised, because the IK Leslie was partially developed by Leslie itself.
I have never tried to play Child In Time, but this is a quick try in getting it close. You can use this as a starting point. Jon Lord, as most organ grinders, was always moving his drawbars, so just one setting is irrelevant, but will get you in the neighborhood of his sound.
Intro and maybe middle:
Upper 800600000 - C3 - Perc 2nd Fast
He eventually gets to this setting in the verses
Upper 888888888 - C3 - Perc Off
Upper 868888765 - C3 - Perc Off
I will adjust this as I get more time.
Highway Star coming. Haven’t played it in several years, so I have to go to an older laptop to get my settings AND i am gathering some interesting additional info on it that you will enjoy.
OK Dave. I translated my settings to VB3 II, just because I knew you used it. I used the default preset to begin the shaping. Highway Star has basically 3 major changes on organ during the song. No percussion.
Lower 888800000 (lower stays the same throughout song)
Chorus section (starting at “I love it. I need it” turn on Vibrato/Chorus C1.
Solo (C1 is off)
Here is settings on VB3 II:
The drive on main page is at 1 o’clock. The newest version of VB3 actually has some good distortion using the tube feedback parameter
Here is something to help you tweak it
Another thing I am testing is something Jon Lord had on top of his organ for awhile that boosted his distortion. I thought it was a Big Muff, but turned out to be a ring modulator.
Below is Roger Glover’s response to someone on alt.music.deep-purple who had questions about the mystery box on Jon’s Hammond in the pre-reunion days:
Subject: Re: Effect device on Jon Lords Hammond C-3 From: (BAsec5) Date: 10 Jun 1995 13:27:38 -0400
>This is something that’s been puzzling me for a long time. >Since cirka 1972, Lord has had some sort of effect box on >top of his C-3. This box produces the strange noice that f. >instance can be heard on the intro to Lazy on Made in Japan >or the intro to You Fool No-one on both California Jam and >Live in London. >My question is: What precisely is this? Any ideas who make >them, what they’re called etc.
The device you’re referring to is a ring modulator. His one was made by Gibson (NOT the guitar company, we think) and is no longer available, certainly not a a ‘stand alone’ device. It was an ugly, square box secured (nailed probably!) to the left side of his C3 so that his left hand could control what he played with his right. The effect of ring modulation is quite strange; - what one puts into it is transformed by a process that I couldn’t explain (harmonic distortion I think, maybe someone more technically oriented could help?), but the resulting noise bears no resemblance to the original signal, and can be ‘modulated’ by a variable that the player has control of. One of the best examples of this is on the middle section of Woman From Tokyo. I remember well the session, I tried to get Jon to do the ‘sweeps’ very slowly and it worked well. That was one complete take. He still has his ‘somewhere’ but it is not an active part of his rig at the moment. These days, ring modulation can be found as a programme on many good sound effects modulators, or synthesizers, on the market, although the way Jon uses it - the 'old fashioned - way, is far superior because it is more controllable.
And yes, you’re right, he played it on the live tracks you mentioned.
In a couple of interviews following the release of Purpendicular Steve Morse admitted to have influenced Jon on his current organ sound:
> I pushed Jon Lord to play the organ with more distortion the way he used to. We recorded it that way. I brought one of my guitar effects units and put it into his organ rig. That’s what he still uses now. I programmed some effects for him. ‘Cascades’, for example, has a heavy organ and guitar lines like in the old days when Ritchie and Jon played a lot of triplet lines together.
AND finally this
EDIT: Dave, you owe me a beer, but I owe you about 400, so take it off my account.
Just a quick update on the “other” organ: GG Audio have just published an update to Blue3 that ENABLES PITCH-BEND for all you crazy guys who love to play with their start/run switches to slow down the tonewheel motor, they’ve emulated that behavior. But no need to play with start/run-switches as long as you have a pitch-wheel…
@Corky! You’ve outdone yourself! I will test out the advice and vids and will be peeling paint soon! Many Thanks. I’ll try to keep one chilled for you! Great contribution.
Now that would be one for Guido to tackle! A lot of complex stuff happens when you turn off the run switch. Pitch bend sort of gets it but it would be fun to have the authentic effect. I always wondered how Tom Scholz pulled off the upwards pitch bend on Smokin’. Either he had his Hammond plugged into a VariAC or he really just changed the tape speed as he was recording… Probably the last one
Scholz is on record saying it was him manipulating the tape with his fingers.
Thanks for the info Torsten. I happen to be one of those crazy guys.