Why I switched from Forte to Cantabile

Thanks for the replies, Ade. I am familiar with the ‘Entire Bank’ option, but that has a big disadvantage - changing states means the preset gets reloaded even if it is the same preset in both states. Most of the instruments I use require a second or longer to load sounds, so reloading a sound in the middle of a song will produce a noticeable dropout.

I have come up with a workflow that works well for me and yes, the forum was helpful in that regard. My point was that it took a long time to get there and I had to reorganize my songs several times through the process. I have seen several comments on the forum from others expressing the same issue, so it seems to be the one stumbling block that new users have with Cantabile. To some extent, it is inevitable due to the flexibility Cantabile provides. Flexibility means choices, it’s just that now, it’s tough for a new user to understand the consequences of those choices.

In the end, I would rather have the flexibility even though it adds complexity. My suggestion is meant to try to make C3 more accessible to new users.

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Yes, load time is the caveat.
As you may have noticed, Cantabile offers a virtual bank of presets.
I think it’s here that the solution is to be found once the save as issue is addressed.


If I understand what you are asking for, I completely agree. The fact that virtual presets auto-update when you make changes is not the way most software works, including audio software. IMO, editing a virtual preset should not update the stored version of the preset until you explicitly save it. It should be possible to edit a preset, then save it as a new preset.


I don’t know if this will help but have you tried unchecking "Automatically Update States " ? Then you can update state with Ctrl+U input.

Edit: After a re-read I see your problem and also see that this advice won’t help. Sorry about that. I do like you request for this capability though.

Correct (referring to your edit).

Hi @tomboughner

Wow, not sure how I missed this post until just now… but thank you for writing it up and I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying Cantabile. Thanks too for the ideas/suggestions - I’ll keep all that in mind.

Some comments:

  • Defaulting the routes in racks to to the rack ports - agree
  • Defaults routes for racks - agree.

You can avoid this by turning on the state behaviour for any of the plugin’s parameters that you want varied across states. eg:

Note you can multi-select all the parameters in the state behaviour panel and press enter to toggle them all on-off. Would a new state behaviour “All Parameters” be handy?

I have some hacky non-friendly stuff that I use for my own testing. It’s logged as feature here

Surprisingly rarely asked for, but perhaps something I should just do. Logged it.

Getting new users up to speed is one of the biggest problems I’m facing right now and it’s leading to posts like this and this. I agree walkthroughs would be good, but right now I’m thinking about some improvements in the software itself.

Thanks again for your insight!


An “all parameters” state behavior would be wonderful!

I think you can achieve this by using “entire bank” …

To avoid delay a ‘bank’ recall is not really the thing.
It’s just the parameters, as would be the case if you were using DAW automation, that would be addressable I’m assuming.

It’s similar but different. All Parameters would save/recall all the parameters without reloading the plugin’s other internal content (eg: selected sample sets etc…).

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Spent the day working on tool tips. Coming soonish…


Wow, thanks Brad! This is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the great support with Cantabile. What other software can you make a feature request for and have it in development two days later?


Brad, to answer your question, yes, an all parameters Behavior would be very nice. I also wonder if it wouldn’t be helpful to make CTRL-A select everything except Entire Bank, even though that is not standard Behavior for CTRL-A. What I find myself doing with almost every rack is selecting all behaviors with CTRL-A, then manually deselecting Entire Bank, then exporting all those behaviors to the parents song. I understand why Entire Bank is an option, but even this thread shows there’s some confusion about what it does and it seems that for most people it’s best to leave it off.

This potentially ties in with my suggestion here. Perhaps one nice solution might be a drop-down at the top of the state behaviour list, for making pre-configured selections, with entries like “All”, “None”, perhaps some other useful combinations such as omitting Entire Bank, plus the ability to store the current state behaviour in a selection preset for applying to other objects.


New build hot of the press with a bunch of changes designed to help with usability/getting started.

All the details in this blog post


All very useful stuff - I especially like the split view editor!



I also like the split screen editor for racks and the new default rack route creation and semantics!



Brad, I don’t know how you did all of this in a matter of a few days. You’ve taken support to a new level! I just did a quick check of the new features and all seem to be working great. Thanks so much for implementing these.

Yeah, Brad works at an insane pace, and provides the most responsive support (and implementation of feature suggestions) of any software I’ve ever seen.

@brad, don’t burn yourself out!!!


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Fantastic stuff, Brad. I was reading through the blog post, saying “Yesss!!” to myself in every paragraph. Some really nice stuff in there, not just for new users. I particularly like the split song/rack view, and the split setlist/song parts view. I also welcome the hiding by default of some ports (loopback etc) - I wonder whether the inclusion of these hidden ports could be temporarily enabled by holding a modifier key when opening a port drop-down?

One suggestion - how about a keyboard shortcut to toggle between split/single view mode? It could be useful in situations where there’s a lot of stuff in the rack or song, to avoid the need for scrolling, for us keyboard junkies!