Why do Input Port Routes work in Rack States, but not in Song States?

Dear all,

maybe you can help me with two issues that currently prevent me from upgrading to C3.

Issue 1

Input Ports seem to work on rack level, but not on song level.

I define the plugins I use as racks and then just load existing racks into my songs. The rack/plugin is used differently depending on the song and/or song state:

  1. The rack may be played from the 88-key masterkeyboard or from a 61-key synth keyboard.
  2. The split and transpose setting will always be somewhat different.
  3. The used sound usually also varies, but that’s a different story (see issue #2).

Originally I intended to keep the racks “dumb” and do all state configuration on song level (e.g. using input ports routings to emulate key splits, transpose, etc.). The reason behind this is that I prefer not to use a rack state for each and every variation of a plugin. To “waste” a rack state for each different sound with individual key split and transpose setting for each song part did not make sense to me. Instead I would have preferred to use rack states for more generic things, like disabling an effect plugin in a certain rack state, and do the key split and transpose on song state level.

This seems not to work, however.

  • I defined input ports with key ranges for a song state and routed them to my racks (see screenshot 1), but nothing happened, the key ranges were simply ignored.
  • So I defined key ranges for a rack state and used the specific rack state in my song state. Now everything worked without any problem.

I would have posted more screenshots, but new users are allowed only one image per posting.

I could live with defining all my key ranges and transpose on rack state level as a workaround, but I’m pretty sure there is a way to achive this on song state level. It has probably to do with the state behavior setting of the rack/input ports/plug, but the user guide is not very clear on that topic and whatever combination of state behavior settings I tried, nothing seemed to work. Any hint on the correct combination of settings would be highly appreciated.

Issue 2

Rack states don’t remember plugin sounds.

This is very likely also related to incorrect settings, but I just don’t know how to set this correctly.
When I change the sound of my plugin (e.g. Pianoteq) in one rack state, the sound is changed for all rack states as well. Of course I want the other rack states to remember their individual sound settings. Actually I would prefer to select the plugin sound on song state level (see issue #1), but this would be the icing on the cake. Just being able the have a different sound per rack state would already make my very happy. BTW, I use the plugin’s sound selection capabilities and not VST presets / fxb files.

Once again, any help and tipps are highly appreciated.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Hi Stefan,

Issue 1 should definitely work. I’d be curious to see how your MIDI routes are configured in the rack. Make sure that inside the rack you’ve created routes from Rack MIDI In - not from Piano 88 Keys.

Issue2 - by default states only remember which plugin preset was selected - primarily because this is typically faster. If you want to store/recall the entire plugin state (which is sounds like you do) select the plugin slot and in the state behaviours panel, turn on Entire Bank.

(I’m not on my Windows machine atm so can’t easily grab a screen shot but will post one later if you need it).



Hi Brad,

thank you for these hints!
Both issues are resolved now.
No reason anymore to not upgrade to V3!

Issue 1 was resolved by switching the route from “Piano 88 Keys” to “Rack MIDI In” inside the rack, as you have already correctly guessed.

With all the new power and flexibility of V3, there is quite some learning curve involved now, and there can be many pitfalls (with me falling into a few of them already). I wonder how to lower or even remove the obstacles for new and migrating users. Maybe some best practices, popular pitfalls to avoid, …?
Remember, with great power comes also great responsibility! :wink:

Issue 2 was resolved by turning on “Entire Bank” in the State Behavior panel. I thought that “Selected Program” would be sufficient, since I only wanted to select a preset from the plugin’s user interface. Am I assuming correct that “Selected Program” then refers to a fxb / vst preset?

Which means that I would now use a standard scenario which has already been discussed in the forum:
Use rack states for the different sounds of a plugin, and do the routing within the song states.

Just in case: how should I change my setup, if I only want to use one default rack state and do the program switching also on song state level?

Once again thank you very much and Best Regards,