Suggestion: Insert existing rack as embedded

I keep hitting situations where I’d like to insert an existing rack as an embedded rack within an rack. But the only way to do it appears to be to “Add existing rack” into the song, turn it into an embedded rack, then cut-paste it into the desired parent rack. It would be so much smoother to have an entry in the “Add object” menu for inserting an existing rack as embedded :relaxed:


Hey Neil…just curious. In what situation would you be using it?

Well I have various “utility” racks that generally do MIDI processing of one form or another. For example, every “instrument” rack I have has an embedded “Volume” rack as the last stage, and has a binding from CC11 to the fader on the volume rack. Some of my racks use a “MIDI Switch” rack, which has multiple rack states that route whatever goes in to one of a number of outputs (I use this in generic instrument racks like my “Strings” rack, where different rack states route to different plugins inside the rack. It’s useful because I use independent routes for MIDI note on/off, sustain, pitch bend, mod wheel, aftertouch etc, so that I can independently enable/disable some of those for certain sounds. The MIDI Switch rack tidies everything up so I don’t need a zillion routes). I have another rack that has states for various slightly esoteric but nevertheless reusable MIDI filter combinations. I have various other similar MIDI utility racks that I can use within other racks, as well as at the song level - I love putting functionality into re-usable racks, rather than re-inventing the same routing patterns every time.

I really like this idea. I have been thinking about doing something like this this for awhile, but haven’t had the time to wrap my head around it just yet. I really appreciate the response. There are so many ways to do so many things on this amazing monster Brad created and I am intrigued by the way people find paths to their specific needs. Thank you for the info. I am still learning!

The “utility” rack I’m most pleased with (although it’s not really relevant to this thread - it’s best served at the song level) is my “Pedal Fade” rack, which listens to my expression pedal input, and has states like “Fade up from zero”, “Fade down from full”, “Fade no level set”, “Fade 50% to full” and various others. The idea was to address the need to fade in/out sounds but ensure they always start at some predefined starting point, for any given song state, with jump prevention; for example with a simple fade in of some strings under a piano, I didn’t want to need to remember to zero my pedal before entering the state with the strings (or couldn’t, because I was fading something else in the previous song state!). It’s all stuff I used to do manually, but it was fiddly and error prone.

I just connect the output MIDI route to a target rack, and choose different rack states for different parts of my song, where I need to do different types of fade. If I need to use the same pedal to fade different sounds elsewhere in the song, I just throw in another Pedal Fade rack and hook it up accordingly. And pleasingly, the description of the fade (e.g. “Fade 50% to full”) appears visually as the rack’s preset for any given song state, so it’s really clear to see what’s happening as the song progresses.

Every time I use it, I’m saving myself 5 minutes of careful route/binding programming. Quick, easy and generally error-free :relaxed:

And another one I don’t use often, but it’s useful when I do - it’s my “Sustainer” rack, which has three states, “Sustain”, “Release” and “None”. I use it in situations where I want to apply sustain pedal to a particular rack/plugin, potentially spanning several song states. A concrete example is one song where I want the bottom note of my keyboard to be held over the first 3 song states, because it’s playing a looped rhythm sample. On state one I hit the note, and it holds by itself, playing the rhythm, until I reach song state 4, where the Sustainer rack is set to “Release” and the rhythm magically stops, exactly on cue :relaxed:


Probably easy enough to add. Leave it with me.

Speaking of your pedal fade rack - did you get that issue with the jump prevention sorted out?


That’s great Neil. I do several songs with horn sections, like for old soul, or Tower Of Power stuff, and that pedal fade in would free up my left hand for more Bari and Bass sax. Thanks for letting me pick your brain.

@brad Thanks Brad, I would definitely use this feature.

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Yes - initially on song state load the rack was sending a CC that defines the fade starting point (with jump prevention disabled in the target rack’s binding), and this worked anywhere except in the first song state of a song, mysteriously. I found, after a lot of trial and error, that if before that on song state load I send a different CC, with jump prevention enabled in the target rack’s binding, it works on the first song state as well. I put it down to something in Cantabile’s jump prevention system not being initialised, and needing to execute bindings with jump prevention enabled in a song before being able to register a separate binding event as a change that will allow jump prevention to kick in. Not sure if that’ll make any sense to you from the code perspective, but it works reliably for me now :relaxed:

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