SOLVED! Plugin-bindings are sending unwanted values

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Hello Brad

First time I’ve been posting here and I hope I’ll find the right words without being a native speaker. Sorry for any mistakes.

I’m using Cantabile as a powerful 18 channel mixing console for my keyboards and backings. All plugins for my analog inputs, VSTis, inserts, FX and subgroups are embeded in racks and saved by their parent song-states. Rack-states are only used for remoting purpose, so each rack has only three states “remote-off”, “load” and “remote-on”.
The “load”-rack-state enables all needed parameter-binding from a plugin to my remote-controller. The cool thing is, that Cantabile sends the current value of a plugin, when its binding is engaged. So motorfaders and endlessencoders are showing the right values from the beginning and there is no need to think about jump-prevention etc… Awesome, thanks to Brad!

The problem starts, when enabling the left column of state-behaviors (except programm) to let the parent song load/save all plugin-parameters. Doing so, a binding obviously doesn’t send the current value of the plugin, but instead the value stored in the rack-state! So switching between my rack-states is like an unwanted reset.
This should be a bug and I hope Brad can solve this.

Thanks for all,
Peter

Hi Borg,

Welcome to the forum!

I’ve had a quick look at this and as from what I can tell this is functioning correctly. When you switch states on the parent song, if the rack has a plugin’s parameters exported then the parameters should be restored to what they were when the song was saved and the binding should fire the new value - that’s by design and what I’m seeing in my test here.

Have I misunderstood the problem? If you can put together a simple song/rack combination that demonstrates the problem I’ll take a closer look.

Brad

Hi Brad,

thanks for your quick response.
It’s about switching rack-states inside an unchanged song-state, which is storing all parameter of the plugin inside the rack.
During a mixing-session I’m changing for example some parameters of an EQ in Rack A, switch to Rack B by loading Rack-A-State “Remote-Off” and Rack-B-State “load” (, followed by “Remote-On”) for another changes in a different plugin of Rack B.
If I’m now going back to Rack-A, its state “load” is engaged for a second time and fires the parameter-values saved (!), but not the current changed values. That’s the unwanted reset, because only the parent song/song-parts should do this.
Same thing in v3.290 and v3.535.

Peter

Hi Brad,

I hope, this example will make everything clearer.
Here I’m using two plugins in two racks:

  • MEqualizer (Meldaproduction)
  • bx-digital (brainworx)
    As controller I am using one behringer x-touch mini, but every controller with motorfader or endlessencoder with own cache should work.
    The two buttons Rack A/B ON of the onboard-kb load these two racks. Originally I’m using a novation launchpad mini.

Peter

To seitch
20180409_Bug-Rack A.cantabileRack (37.1 KB)
20180409_Bug-Song.cantabileSong (22.6 KB)
20180409_Bug-Rack B.cantabileRack (40.0 KB)

Hi @Borg,

OK - I think I understand. What you’re saying is that you only want the exported state behaviours to be used when loading the song or switching song states - and not when switching rack states. Unfortunately that’s not the way it’s designed and to change it would I think break a lot of other peoples setups.

One possibility that might work for you is Cantabile’s State Reset support.

Brad

Hi Brad,

I thought I’d have understood the way states behave?
Next trial :upside_down_face:

Inside rack A of my preceding example I’m now generating a similiar binding. Therof I am using the stereo out of mx rack-A-EQ.

  1. The stereo out, no state behavior checked:

  2. By renaming this output to “Bug-Rack A Out” I bind the E-Output to my controller. Only the “enable”-statefor rack is checked:

  3. This binding will obly be engaged with rack-stae 4 “Load Rack Out”:

  4. With the orange onscreen-button “Rack A Out” I am able to load rackstate 4 “Load Rack Out”:

  5. Now I press the orange button, my controller loads the current output-value. Thereafter I change to full volume as you can see on the next picture:

  6. Without any savings I go back to rackstate 1 “Remote off” and again engange the orange button. So my controller will be updated by the output-value stored in Cantbile.
    => The volume does not change, because the Gain Level isn’t checked either for the rack nor the song. That’s correct.

  7. Now I turn on the state behavior of the stereo out for the parent song and set the volume to 0dB:

  8. After that the same procedure as before. Also now the volume remains n 0dB as expected, because the state behavior for the rack is unvhecked.

Until here everything seems to work properly, but now I’ll do the same thing with an EQ-plugin…

  1. The EQ with nothing checked for states. Frequency of band 1 is set to around 5kHz:

  2. Same setup as before. I’m vhanging the HPF to 24 Hz, switch back to rackstate 1 “Remote off” and press again the button to load the internal vaue. As expected, the HPF do not change.

  3. Now I check state behavior of band 1-Frequ for the parent song and change the HPF to 20 kHz:

  4. Again one turnaround and BÄÄÄM!!!
    Cantabile now loads the HPF-value where I started from, not the current value. That is the unwanted reset I was talking about.

I’m not shure, if this is the value stored in song- or in rack-state, but anyway it looks strange to me.

Sorry for the long post and for my clunky english. But I need a solution.

Peter

Hi Peter,

It looks like the box you checked for the eq is saved with the song so if you make a change to it you must save the song for the memory of that change takes place the next time you call that state up. I think that’s why it seems to be resetting to you when you change the rack states without having saved the Song.

Dave

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Hi Dave,

thank you for your response.
First of all, there are two different behaviors with identical settings. So one of both must be false.
As long as I am not switching songs or song states, nothing of their caches should be reloaded. In my case I am only switching between rack states. The plugin output gain behaves correctly, but never not the EQ parameters.

Peter

Today I made another test with a simpler setup as before and checked all midi traffics with bome Midi translator. The bug seems to be mutch easier and has nothing to do with binding as thought before, but only with exported state behaviors of linked racks. If only the first option for exported settings is selected, changing the selected state in the rack surprisingly do affect (!) the setting of my plugins!?
I’m using the last build and have no idea, why this issues obviously occurs only with me?
Dunno :nerd_face:
Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks, Peter

Hi Peter,

Sorry I haven’t had time to look into this any further yet (trying to fix some other issues). If you’ve got a simple song/rack file that demonstrates the problem please send it through and I’ll get to is asap.

Brad

Hi Brad,

I could read the trouble you had with Microsoft and Addictive Keys and so on. You are doing a real great job and I am grateful and happy to be with you and all the nice guys around here. There is nothing to take for granted, so thank you so much. No reason to apologise late responses at all!

Here you are:
20180411_Binding Test.cantabileRack (28.6 KB)

Today I tested this rack again, but within a new song and there was a surprise:
All my issues were gone. No bug with a new created song.
But after saving the song, closing and reloading it, the troubles were back.

Peter

1 Like

Interesting! I’ll see if I can reproduce it next week…

Hi Brad,

It is almost certainly this bug belongs to my own computer-setup. Until now the Laptop I am using for Cantabile was also used for other purposes with a whole bunch of unnecessary programms relating to my new Keyboard-live-Setup. So I decided to buy a new only-for-Catabile-Laptop. (Already in front of me, Yeah! :slight_smile: )
So, please, don’t spend too much time with this. I’ll report, as soon as my new Laptop is established!

Peter

Hi Brad,

sadly I’ve to realise that the bug isn’t solved by my new Laptop. Nothing doing. I need support!

Peter

Hi @all,

I recently read a lot trough many posts and still keep going on. So many good advises, ideas and much more to learn from. But so far I couldn’t find someone, who is using states as I do.

Thinking about what’s the best state-concept is to get the most flexibility out of Cantabile, I’m following two simple rules:

  • Arrange all Keyboard-/VST-/FX-Sounds via Cantabile-Songs/-Parts.
  • Use rack states for global purpose, like resets or for remote-control purposes.

Doing so, keeps every song separated, despite of using the same linked racks in every song. Adjusting sounds in a rack reflects only to the particular song, I don’t need to save programs or rack states for each VST in each rack of each Part of each song, what would be tedious.

So is there somebody out thinking like me?
Am I wrong?
Does universal peace exist?

Best regards,
Peter

Hi Brad,

last week I built up my whole Cantabile-Song-Setup from scratch. As far as I can see now, all my troubles (the unwanted resets) are gone. So my problem seems to be solved, albeit without exactly knowing where it came from. I’m happy. :sun_with_face:

Thanks for all & best regards,
Peter

1 Like

Hi @all,

unfortunately last night my troubles were back again. So I decided to pen a new Bug-Report “Exported Settings-Error”. Coming soon…

Best regards,
Peter

Hi @Borg,

Sorry havent had a chance to look at this yet. I’ll try to get to it asap.

Brad

1 Like