New user - Best setup for 3 VSTs?

[Tom]

I am intimidated/impresed by the skill level of the users here. I have Korg Modwave and Soundpaint set up in Catabile Lite. I want to add the new Osmose E license/software (which Expressive E has just made available for original Osmose hardware owners) as VST #3. Right now I’m using a Yamaha MODX7 as my midi controller into Cantabile. But I would need to also add my Osmose as a midi controller in order to control the new Osmose E license/software. So, I’m guessing theoretically I could have Modwave and Soundpaint as Song1 on my SetList and then have Osmose E as Song2. Is that correct so far?

Then, if that’s correct, my second question is whether it’s possible to physically merge the MODX and the Osmose hardware going into Cantabile via a midi merge cable. I know you can split midi output into two identical out signals. But can one reverse the midi splitter so that one sends two hardware midi signals into one midi out? I mean you wouldn’t be using both hardware midi controllers at the same time. And I wouldn’t be using this in a live performance, fail-safe mode. Just to experiment with. The ideal solution is probably a second computer hosting Cantabile so that MODX and Osmose each go into their own computer. Or some kind of “multiple” midi switching/routing box. Is that the best, cheapest solution?

Thanks,
Tom

[The_Elf]

You don’t need MIDI mergers, or splitters and certainly not two computers!

All you need to do is connect all your devices to your computer with USB and within Cantabile you route them wherever you want them to go. You may need to get a USB hub if you don’t have enough USB ports on your computer, but that’s it.

This is what Cantabile exists to do - you load your VST synths into Cantabile and you route the MIDI outputs of your physical keyboards to the VST synths’ MIDI inputs to play them - or route them to each other, or other hardware devices, or even back to themselves. Many sources can point to a single destination, and a single source can point to many destinations. You could, for example, route your Osmose to Ctrl-E and your MODX to Modwave. Or you could route the MODX to both Ctrl-E and Modwave at the same time.

And you don’t need to create separate songs to do all this. Just make all your routings in the one song and you will be fine for starters.

The only thing that might cause you to stumble is a thing called ‘Local Control’. Put simply, this is a keyboard playing its own sounds. In the case of the Osmose, for example, unless Local Control is switched off, then pressing a key would play the Osmose’s own internal sound and Ctrl-E at the same time. You could just turn down the Osmose’s own front panel volume control, but that’s a bit knucklehead…

The way to properly avoid this is to switch Osmose’s Local Control to ‘Off’ (in the settings pages); now the Osmose will only play Ctrl-E. If you then wanted to play the Osmose’s internal sounds you would route (in Cantabile) the Osmose’s MIDI output back to its MIDI input. Same thing with your MODX, though I’ve never used one, so I can’t comment on it specifically.

Osmose can be tricky. When you upgrade the Osmose to firmware 2.3 you will see that it now presents 5 MIDI output ports and 5 MIDI input ports to Cantabile. The ‘Play’ MIDI output port comes from the keyboard and the ‘Sound Engine’ MIDI input port accesses the Osmose’s internal sounds. By routing the ‘Play’ port to the ‘Sound Engine’ port you would be back to the Osmose playing its internal sounds, albeit now via Cantabile’s routing.

If this all sounds a bit complex, just take slowly, one step at a time…

[Tom]

The_Elf - Thanks! Wise advice to take it one step at a time!

I was able to update Osmose to 2.3 and installed Zyklop and Vital (somewhere LOL!). Woo-Hoo!

I’m still trying to figure out iLok.

I asked Chris at Expressive E if Osmose CTRL-E would work in Cantabile and he said that I needed to load it into a DAW. I just don’t think he’s familiar with Cantabile.

I think I have enough USB ports. I can’t be 100% sure that both of the ports are 3.0. I think the side USB is 3.0 but the back USB is probably only 2.0. But I don’t think 2.0 ports present a problem for this workflow. As I understand it, 3.0 ports are best for large file transfers being that they’re 10x faster than 2.0.

I’m guessing it’s possible to send both midi controllers over one midi cable but only if they’re sending on different midi channels. And then given that CTRL-E is sending out 5 midi signals, it’s probably best to just use two separate USB connections.

My other thought is that, perhaps down the road, I may want to have separate songs so that the volume levels of the different VSTs will have already been adjusted. Sort of like having “favorites” pre-defined.

OK. Deep breath. Thanks again, The_Elf!

Tom

[The_Elf]

You don’t need to send ‘both controllers over one midi cable’. Connected by USB each will present its own virtual MIDI port to Cantabile. And hence no need to have them on different MIDI channels either.

And yes, Cantabile is, effectively, a ‘DAW’. Ctrl-E should load into it just fine. I’ve had a brief play with it myself already.

[Tom]

Well, I got CTRL-E, Vital, and Zyklop to load into Cantabile (after getting the iLok license for CTRL-E). Or at least all three show up on Cantabile’s Midi Routing diagram. I can play Vital and Zyklop from my MODX. But when I swap MODX with the Osmose USB cable and set Osmose to External MIDI (as opposed to Sound Engine), I get no sound from these two plug-ins. It doesn’t matter which Osmose setting I use…. MPE, Classic Keyboard, Poly Aftertouch, etc.

When I tap on Vital or Zyklop in my Midi Routing display, they will open up to allow preset selection. But when I tap on CTRL-E, nothing opens. I’m not sure how Vital and Zyklop relate to CTRL-E but Expressive-E did recommend loading them.

I think that best describes my current predicament. I will pose this question to Chris at Expressive E.

Tom

[The_Elf]

Osmose is an MPE device. Non-MPE recipients will not respond well to it. That is where Ctrl-E comes in - use that with the Osmose.

[Tom]

I’m not clear what you’re suggesting. I can’t get CTRL-E to play using Osmose as the midi controller no matter what setting I use - MPE, Poly Aftertouch, Classic Keyboard, etc.

Also, I don’t understand why ExpressiveE wants me to install Vital and Zyklops if you don’t think they respond well to Osmose.

Tom

[Tom]

The_Elf - Do I have to tell Cantabile that I’m using an Osmose instead of a MODX as the midi controller, instead of just swapping the USB cable over to the Osmose?

Tom

[Tom]

So I connected Osmose to a different USB port - different than the one I had been using for the MODX. Then I built a routing diagram using Osmose as the midi controller. I can get all the CTRL-E plug-ins to play on Cantabile’s on-screen keyboard but still not from the Osmose.

I figured out how to change the CTRL-E presets - you have to click on the preset twice from the alphabetical twice, once to highlight it and then once more to load it.

Tom

[Tom]

And, duh, I configured the new port to show Osmose 49. Now I can play these new presets from my Osmose! Yay!

Tom

[The_Elf]

You’re beginning to understand it. One step at a time…

Just to be clear… which USB cable or USB port you use make no difference - you’re not dealing with point-to-point connections like MIDI.

[Tom]

It doesn’t matter as long as you remember to reconfigure that port within Cantabile.