I would like to share my experience with piano libraries with you.
So far, I am not a fan of modeled pianos. I think they lack authenticity. I’m sure that someday modeled piano will win the war, but not today.
Over the years, I have purchased many sampled piano libraries, some of which are quite large.
Not all of them are perfect. The main problem I have found is with the MIDI velocity. Another negative aspect is the timbre when using the “una corda” pedal, which is often poorly simulated. Very few libraries include appropriate samples for this. Usually, trivial equalization is used, which is also used for closed lid simulation. For this reason, I always leave the lid “open” except when I need a dark, “cinematic” sound.
Please note:
Sound quality is subjective.
Playability mainly refers to the ease of achieving the correct MIDI velocity curve.
The CPU load parameter is the Cantabile “Time Load” value on my i7-13700K desktop/rack PC with buffer set to 256.
White Grand, still my go to. Once the velocity response from the keyboard is dialed in and you’re truly accessing all 16 velocity layers, I find it very playable, and very adaptable too. It’s been accused by some of being a bit boingy when hit hard, but I found that was usually where keyboard calibration was not set appropriately. It makes the right kind of boing that a piano would if being hit very, very hard. There’s a lot of goodness in the low velocity layers that, I suspect, some users might not get to hear if time is not taken to find a velocity response that allows a given keyboard to access the best dynamic range for natural playability.
Anyway, it’s a pretty subjective thing, as you said, Paolo.
As it so happens, way back when, probably over 20 years ago, Per from Sampletekk approached me to help make his piano play on the new Halion 2, which was Steinberg’s first foray into serious streaming.
There was no ‘megatrig’ in that version, and the only way to create note off samples was to create release loops. These were achieved by a 1 sample silent loop which played at note on and went into the release loop phase at note off.
Totally clumsy, but it worked surprisingly well.
I had developed a pretty streamlined process for making these release loop samples using Bias Peak.
I eventually imported adaptations into later versions of Halion which had Megatrig, and I’ve continued to tweak it into shape, including an approach for simulating resonance when the pedal is down.
Whenever I use with other musos, I’m invariably quizzed about what that piano is. As it’s been adapted over the years, and it’s hard to know who purchased the early Halion 2 version, to be subsequently re-imported through various iterations of Halion, I’m guessing my version is a bit of a one off.
I’ve played a number of alternatives and always come back to this. I love it.
Hi Adrian
You are spot on about keyboard calibration. My go to has always been the Academic Grand by Acoustic Samples (Kontakt version). Recently, I started using the free UNO in Kontakt 8. I seem to be able to easily dial in a reasonable full tone, especially after calibration.
Looking in my unused purchase vault, I found the Sampletekk White Grand. Gonna give it a try!
It’s definitively a great piano! Sampletekk have a good hand for sampling pianos - as I understand they also contributed to my personal favorite piano: Addictive Keys.
Addictive Keys is my personal go-to plugin - very decent on the CPU, and a piano sound that works very well even in pretty busy mixes. There’s a bit of a low frequency “thump” to it that needs handling with care in a live situation, but with a bit of judicious EQ that can be taken care of…
Oh, I forgot to include something to the list: a lot of these are what I call “minor instruments”, but the Garritan Abbey Road Studios CFX definitely isn’t one of them. In fact, it’s actually my go-to piano at gigs.
The others I use less are the GSi Pianos, Spitfire Mrs Mills, and the freebie. There are also a few pianos I don’t really play anymore, like the old Native Instruments from Komplete 9, the Air Minigrand and Steinberg The Grand 3.
Awesome tip, thanks Sergio. Too bad it’s currently out of stock, so I bought it at Sampletekk for $61. I didn’t installed yet, I’ll check it out in the weekend.
Wow, so you’re a piano designer. This is intriguing, I’d like to take this opportunity to ask you a few questions.
Ouch! My Installations drive is full of rubbish. It contains almost twenty-eight years collection of plugins and audio software.
There’s the host I used prior to Cantabile: the infamous Brainspawn Forte, the most powerful BSOD generator in the history of digital music!
Ha ha, not really. It just so happens that I was part of the Halion beta team back then and become very familiar with its shortcomings and potential. A few developers were watching closely, in case Halion dethroned Gigastudio and Kontakt - I helped Thomas Scarbee and Per to conform their libraries to Halion 2, and then through the various import options that the later, totally redesigned Halion versions had, I was able to continue to work with and modify the programming. I still use Halion 4 as the main sampler for pianos, whether electric or acoustic. That version has a great low footprint and is rock solid.
I did make one foray into creating a grand piano with Franz Pusch of VR sound. He had a very interesting library designed for Gigastudio, which employed Porsche dummy heads with extremely high quality mics in the ears. Great spatial effect.
Back in the day I used a 4 layer piano he had created, quite extensively. It had a very special timbre. I used it a lot on the Jackie Chan movie, The Medallion. (Not a great movie! )
Franz and I decided to make a 16 layer piano using a Yamaha C7 midi grand which was at a studio in Hollywood owned by the guy who had made a fortune out of writing the theme for America’s Funniest Home Videos.
Only trouble was, studio was on Cahuenga Blvd, right by the 101 Freeway. The build up of noise was just impossible, and after several sleepless nights trying to avoid trucks and police sirens, we gave up.
really nice list, we should start a piano topic, parallel to Corky’s organ and guitar pages!
Are you really having and playing all that piano’s, it’s an impressive list! Still my favorite Vienna Imperial grand is not on the list, I’d wonder if it is very different from the other two Vienna Bösendorfers on the list.
Recently it was upgraded to: Studio Bösendorfer Imperial - Vienna Symphonic Library
It is 100 velocities per key, my first choice for real “piano parts”, it gives an experience of piano playing that I did not find in another piano up to now, although I did not try even a small part of your list.
For more rythmic parts I prefer a bit more clear sound and the Yamaha C7 is my preference there. I used to have the SampleTank C7, which still I think is nice, but finally I found out that particularly that piano makes my Cantabile to crash. Recently I added the Production Voices Estate (Kawai GS60 6) and Production Grand Compact (Yamaha C7). Both are Sforzando libraries, small and CPU efficient. The Production Grand Compact is my last acquisition and I am really very enthusiastic about that, very clear well defined tone!
I see that you have a high grade for the Pianoverse C7, that could not convince me on the soundsamples of IK. It was just 29 Euro’s, so possibly I made a mistake there.
Last I am using the Melda Grand, which is a Steinway D, it has a deep sound, nice descant, for some purposes a bit too much bass. In MSoundfactory you can modify/adapt it in whatevery way you want.
I also bought the Sampletekk Black and White at audioplugindeals for some 27 Euro’s or something like that. They could never convince me, but maybe I have to test again with all those positive remarks here.
Like @Corky I still use Academic Grand a lot. I also love Pianoteq (there are so many different models available, but I use the Bluthner and Bechstein are my favorites).
I am at the other end of the spectrum: I didn’t play sample based piano sound in years. I can appreciate how samples can sound on a recording, but I can’t play any of them with the same feedback as I get with my Pianoteq handcraft patches.
I think this is the story with a lot of modeled synths. There is an organic quality to them which is undeniable.
Where things get questionable is in the actual result, which sounds like a real thing - and certainly can feel like a real thing, but might be a real thing that has never quite existed. This is particularly true of string and wind instruments, I have found. It feels totally authentic and real world, but it’s a slightly altered reality.
I love these stories, you must have a ton of them, being a famous musician and all. I sort of remember when we met, crammed into that micro booth at SIM back in 1980. I mostly hung out with Dave Bristow and his CS-80, though. He was already hinting that Yamaha was about to drop some game-changing new synth, guessing he meant the DX-7.
Yup, it’s a parallel universe so far. Waiting for a reunion.
No, this one is a new product sampled in the smaller Studio B. Both libraries are currently sold separately by Vienna.
Honestly, I still prefer the original “darkness.” This one is a bit too bright for my taste.
It’s an enjoyable piano, like the Keyscape C7. Too bad you have lots of issues witk IK products.
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