MIDI control of drawbar set 1 in Acousticsamples B5 V3

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Hi folks, I’m attempting to use Acousticsamples B5 version 3 in Cantabile (controlled via my trusty old Nord C1), and am having some trouble with MIDI control of the ‘Set 1’ drawbars on both manuals.

By default, the Nord drawbars move the B5’s Set 2 drawbars, and whilst I can switch between the drawbar sets (I have CC 3 bound as the switcher, which sends 127 for Set 2 and 0 for Set 1) I can’t get the Nord to move the Set 1 drawbars (the Nord drawbar controllers use the same CC across switches and and move the Set 2 drawbars throughout). There doesn’t seem to be an option in B5 to assign separate controllers for different drawbar sets, so I can’t work out what input B5 is hoping for!

A related question: Once I get the Set 1 drawbars moving, I assume I’ll need to set up a conditional MIDI filter so that my drawbar controllers do one thing if CC3 sends 127 and another if CC3 sends 0. Is this possible in Cantabile?

@Corky I hope you don’t mind me tagging you. You seem to know lots about these things and I’d really appreciate a few words of wisdom if you have the time.

Thanks in advance for any help :smiley:

Hi asdu and Welcome to the forum :slight_smile:

The B5 V3 defaults to CC 21 to 29 for the lower draw bars. You can use bindings if you have the performer version to remap the draw bars on the controller using them. It would be recommended to put the B5 in a rack if you wish to use it in live set lists so you can save memory. Anyway the bindings to map to the lower draw bars on B5 would look like this once made.

The keyboard is giving the 12 to 20 CC numbers and data for the B5 v3 naturally without the use of bindings because the Cantabile input route is passing all unfiltered MIDI data to the plugin. To separate the MIDI CC data from the MIDI notes (which can help when using bindings) you can check the box in the input route control window (inside your rack if you use one). Keep in mind if you chose this way you will need to make bindings for the upper draw bars too.

They would be like the ones above but with the Target CC numbers matched to the Source ones for each binding. You could then use Cantabile state switching to enable one or the other set of bindings for adjusting the draw bars. Using bindings you need to understand and set the state behaviors for each binding and how to group bindings to simplify things.

Together with both groups collapsed you get this along with the switching binding. Note the 2 rack states on the left

What I have done here is group the upper draw bars to a group and the lower to another. That way I only needed to make sure each group had the enable disable checkbox active allowing me to choose which group is ON for adjusting.

draw bar group state behavior switch checked

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To use the CC#3 to switch between the 2 sets of draw bars it gets more complex. The rack would need 2 states to switch the draw bars and a binding to process the CC#3 input and select a state. I’m assuming it is a continuous controller so my example binding is based on that assumption, if not a switch binding scheme is also possible. So a binding for this would look like this.

and the state behaviors for it would be turned off so it was always enabled

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It’s a little work but it is all do-able. There are detailed resources available here https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/support/.

If @Corky knows any shortcuts I’m sure he will let you know.

Cheers,

Dave

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Welcome to the forum @asdu !

Though any wisdom I might possess is debatable, I do appreciate your comment.

@dave_dore has given you a very in-depth process, which I suggest you try. He is a Cantabile Guru for sure. :wink:

B5 can be a headache, and it took many hours to saddle-break it. The CCs in B5 can be changed by double clicking the number and save. I do not suggest changing CCs within the plug, just because adding different controller could really make things messy.
Let Cantabile do all the work. When I set up a controller for B5, I save the controller as a separate rack, within a B5 rack. Regarding your Nord, Cantabile controls the CC conversions as @dave_dore exampled. No need to make changes in B5 or the Nord. As Dave noted, you will need Cantabile Performer to use his offering. Remapping within Cantabile is a very powerful feature, and has preserved my sanity(what little I have left).
Try the example, and get back to us with your successes, questions, and/or failures during the process.

Cheers

Corky

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Thanks both for such detailed responses - really appreciate your help :smiley:

@dave_dore I think your solution would let a single set of drawbars switch between controlling the drawbars for the upper and lower manuals? I am actually trying to achieve something different - let a single set of drawbars switch between controlling the different drawbar sets for the same manual. See screenshot (from the B5 interface) for what I mean by the drawbar sets.

drawbar_sets

I think I could adapt your instructions to achieve this, but my problem is I can’t work out which MIDI controllers B5 defaults to for control of the ‘Set 1’ drawbars. It just seems to assign control of ‘Set 2’ (I can control the switching into Set 1, just not the actual Set 1 drawbars). Do you know which MIDI controllers B5 is expecting here?

Thanks again

Hey asdu,

Sorry I misunderstood. To control the “SET 1” and “Set 2” buttons you need to create the CC# for each button. i.e.

right click on the button to open the CC program window

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pick an unused CC# and set it by opening the dropdown menu that says “None”, it will give you access to the MIDI automation links.

You’ll need a different number for each button and then you could use your CC#3 switch to set up the Cantabile bindings for the switchover. You also need top use different set of bindings to switch the state and send the CC switch to B5. An example of this is below. All the bindings have the Enable switch set in state behaviors with 2 bindings for each state, one to switch states and one to send the cc to B5.

FWIW you could have no state changes if you could dedicate a different CC controller button to each B5 Set button. In that case you would only need the 2 bindings that talk to B5.

I hope this clarifies things some :slight_smile:

Dave

There is also the option of binding the keyswitches (by note) B and A# to change “sets” as they call it.

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Hi again and thanks for your replies. I still don’t think I’ve made myself very clear! The thing I am struggling for isn’t control of the ‘Set 1’ and ‘Set 2’ buttons, it is MIDI control of the drawbars in ‘Set 1’.

I can’t work out any way to bind CC to the Set 1 drawbars within B5, and UVI makes no distinction between sets when setting its bindings (so you can’t bind the two sets in different ways). Hope that’s clearer and thanks for your patience

Hi asdu,

I understand now what you want but I don’t know of a way to do it. The set 1 & 2 are tied to the same set of draw bars so you can adjust which ever set you have selected with the same controller CC#'s all you can do is switch between the 2 presets that share the same draw bars.
No real time adjustment of both is possible as far as I can see.

Dave

asdu,

As Dave said, it is not possible to have a CC for each “virtual” drawbar in the B-5 (and I assume most clones).

Looking at the drawbar configuration on an original Hammond:

To recreate the original, the plugin would need it utilize 38 CCs (one set of 9 for A/B on each manual and 2 for the Foot Pedals). To keep things manageable, the plugin designers use only one set of drawbars per manual.

You would have to send the preset note number (off the top of my head - B0 and Bb0) to select A/B plus the corresponding CC#. You could, also just use the built in Preset Keys to quickly choose the sound you want (Presets are programmable) and select it via Note Db through B (C turns all drawbars off).

C3 is quite accommodating, but you first need to learn the (plugin without C3) to fully understand how to incorporate it to get the results you require.

Doug

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asdu

As @dave_dore and @dhsherbert said, the B5 has two sets of drawbars for each manual. The drawbars of the upper (and lower) are in two sets. The sets determine which of the two are active. The two sets of drawbars are controlled by one binding group. Trying to make it simple, the upper manual set 1 is at 888000000, and set 2 is at 888888888, BUT they share the same controller CC#. The particular set that is selected and visual, are the drawbars you are controlling. Switch sets, and you are controlling the drawbars that are visual. In the plugin bindings, you are given “upper drawbars” and “lower drawbars” to control. Think of it as switching the black key switches…you can press the B key switch and the A# key switch. That’s all the “sets” really are, just a quicker way of switching the black B and A# key switches…using the same drawbars. B5 only displays one drawbar set in upper and lower. All this is about is saving space in the GUI.

Hope this helps, and doesn’t confuse you.

Regards

Corky