Master Rack... how freaking stupid am I?


…because this should be easier.

So I decided after the fact now that have an entire show set up that I really need a master rack at the output with a couple things in it. Easy enough to set up, but now I have to re-route EVERY rack and object from the main outputs in EVERY scene in EVERY song?? That will take days! Surely there’s a simple way I’m missing. Can’t I just route what would have been the main output to it and then to the actual main speaker out? Sometimes the simplest things are the worst. Can’t Cantabile have a nice easy way to insert stuff in sort of a virtual output buss?


You could go into your settings and remove the audio-channels from the output 1/2. This leads to a virtual audio port.
Then you need to enable Loopback-ports.

Now you can insert your master-rack into your background rack and route the audio from the loopback-port output 1/2 into this master rack. Of course you’d need to create a new stereo output under the settings that again has the hardware-outputs assigned to it.


And I’d add a button to the controller bar, that opens up the Master-Rack. So you can access it fast if necessary.


What version were internal loopbacks implemented in :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:


long long long time ago.


Ahhhh, I’ll be danged, bet they aren’t showing. I’ll look tomorrow, it’s 2am. Thanks! :smiley:


You have to set the loop back ports to be shown. They are hidden by default. Out of town without my laptop. It’s on the Tools menu


Hi All,

I posted too quickly last evening and after thinking on it a few things don’t add up with this plan. Loopback ports as defined are based on input ports that are created in options. In Chris’s explanation there is no mention of how the loopback port came to exist. Removing the output assignments on an output port (Main Speakers in this case) does not automatically create a loopback input port named ‘Loopback - Main Speakers’. So Fred would still have to create an input port with a name he chooses and then change all the outputs of each route in all his songs that were set to ‘Main Speakers’ to that Loopback input port to route it to the background rack.

Alternatively as Fred said in the OP he could create a linked rack designated as a master rack and route to it and then to his Main Speakers from there. Then he would add the master rack to each song and edit the routes in each. Either method requires output route editing in the existing songs.



Yep, that’s what I realized…


It may not be worth it. Have to think on it… at least I don’t literally have to route EVERY output in EVERY scene in EVERY song. Just whatever happens to be active and audible at any given time.

Obviously going forward I’m going to create a song template that already has a rack inserted as a master rack, and maybe even a blank dummy rack that can just be there for whatevs, just in case. I really wish C3 could have a dedicated output rack, seems like it would make a lot of sense.


Damn… it was quite early here too when I wrote it…

I think about it again.

Which Audiointerface do you use? Some of them come with loopback ports. Iirc the newest focusrite and rme interfaces do so.

Or how about a physical loopback? Main out into two inputs of your interface? Of course this will have a major drawback as this doubles the latency.


Hi Fred,

This is from left field and is probably as dangerous as it sounds but I have this program called Advanced Find and Replace by Abacre that can go through every file in a folder and replace words, phrases etc inside the files with very advanced conditions (regular expressions). I’ve been using this since the stone age for surgery on all kinds of files.

  • Search files with smart queries as with Google or Bing.
  • Replace simple or multiline text in multiple files.
  • Complete search and replace in Microsoft Office Word, Excel and PowerPoint files.
  • With batch replace operation you can easily replace or update hundreds of different links in several files.
  • Preview found text as with Google.
  • Possibility to replace in file names: it can be used as full-featured file renamer.
  • Possibility to rename or delete folders.
  • Use Perl-style regular expressions for replacements of any complexity.
  • Saves results in XML and other formats.
  • Works with command line parameters.
  • Extremely fast, easy to use and excellent documentation is included.
  • It is a great time-saver for programmers and Webmasters

@Torsten can probably put the kibosh on this discussion.


Torsten is a master kibosher! :grin:


I just started “reading” .cantabileRack files, they’re as complicated as I imagined.


I will stick to short stories then. After 2 years of programming in Fortran, it took 5 years to uncross my eyes. :crazy_face:


Main problem is they’re written in Australian! :thinking:


I’ve come up with a workable solution, which is to say f**k it until the next show setup.


No putting any kiboshes on anything this time - sorry :wink:

Unfortunately, it is as @dave_dore indicated: loopback ports only exist for INPUT ports. So yes, you could use loopback ports to communicate between songs and the master rack, but you’d have to use the loopback ports in your songs:

  • create a new audio input port “MasterRack”, not connected to any physical port
  • send the output in your songs to “Loopback - MasterRack”
  • then use the “MasterRack” input port in your background rack to process the output from your song (compression, master EQ, limiting) and then send it to the physical outputs in your master rack.
  • the advantage of this: you can use background rack states to switch between different audio configurations (mono / stereo, individual outputs vs. summed) and processing settings without having to do anything within your songs.

But as @dave_dore stated, you’d have to edit the routes in all your song files to point to the loopback port instead of the “Main Speakers” output.

On first glance, there should be no need to use complicated regex magic; it should be feasible to simply do a mass replace of “targetPort”: “Main Speakers” to “targetPort”: “Loopback - MasterRack” with a batch text file editor like AFR (mentioned by @dsteinschneider).

After this operation, your songs would then send all audio output to the new loopback port, making it available for your background rack to process and send to the physical output.

I’d definitely recommend backing up all your song files before doing that and testing it first with a few of your songs - not sure if this simple replace operation might not mess up some things outside routes. I’ve checked it in some of my songs, and haven’t found anything surprising, but you never know…

BTW: I’m just working on a simplification of my song files using loopback ports - I’ve moved most of my “Faders” rack connections to my background rack, which removes a lot of the tedious “standard cabling” from my songs. The idea to move the master rack to the background rack is a nice one - I’ll consider this as a next simplification step.

Currently, all my songs have this master rack as their final stage, but it would be a lot cleaner to move it to the background rack. Since all my songs already contain a master rack, making the switch will be pretty easy: create the master rack in the background rack, then change the linked master rack contained in my songs so that it simply forwards the audio streams to the loopback ports. Then I can change the songs one by one and replace the linked master rack with direct routes to the loopback ports.




I personally work with a master song rack which then goes into another masterrack in the BG rack. The master song rack allows me to adjust the whole volume of a song while the masterrack adjust all songs at once.


Good idea! Noted for my rework project…