I am on the latest build 4222 with Windows 11 24H2. Over the past few days, I’ve had both MIDI and audio cut out simultaneously while playing on my Studiologic Numa Piano X MIDI controller using Cantabile for all sound generation. This has happened on two different laptops, using two different ASIO drivers.
When it occurs, I hear a small “pop”, then Cantabile stops receiving MIDI and stops producing audio, even when keyed from the onscreen keyboard. The Cantabile UI remains responsive, however Cantabile freezes when I attempt to stop and restart the audio engine. The only way to close Cantabile is to kill the process in Windows Task Manager. When I restart Cantabile, everything is working fine again, so I don’t think this is a MIDI controller or audio interface issue.
Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? There is no discernable pattern (i.e. same song, same linked rack, plugin, etc.) that creates this issue.
Not sure but I heard there were some Win 11 sound issues recently. Was there a recent update you could roll back to? Another possible is the audio interface having troubles. If you have a backup interface you could try it to eliminate that possibility.
I appreciate the suggestions @dave_dore , but I don’t believe this is a Windows issue. My two laptops, while technically on 24H2, are on different builds. One is on the Windows Insider Release Preview thread, while the other is straight production (non-Insider) build. The likelihood of a common carryover bug is between these builds is remote.
If the audio interface was the issue, wouldn’t it still be wonky after restarting Cantabile? Note that I don’t have to reboot Windows or toggle the audio interface or MIDI controller on/off to restore full MIDI and audio functionality; only “killing” and restarting Cantabile fixes the issue.
I hear ya @Corky , but it is strange that Cantabile appears to be the only component failing. Once I restart the Cantabile application and without rebooting or changing anything else), both audio and MIDI are magically working again.
Wondering if @brad can comment on what condition(s) would make Cantabile “panic” to the point of ceasing to receive any MIDI messages (verified using C4’s MIDI Monitor) and send any audio (with the audio engine hanging and unresponsive). As stated, the Cantabile UI remains fully responsive and functional.
If it’s repeatable as you indicate then the next step is to turn on deep diagnostics switches in options and possibly the Console so you can get a look at the log even if it freezes.
My first suspicion would be USB cables - you’d be shocked how often these are the culprit to issues like this. They work fine for hours but then will drop out for a bit and the lower level drivers/hardware never recover - at least not without restart of the driver or sometimes Windows itself.
Next I would check for audio driver updates, make sure you’ve got the latest. Or if you’ve recently updated a driver consider going back to the previous version in case they broke something.
To explain the technical side of this a little… Cantabile audio engine relies on regular callbacks from the audio driver - once every audio cycle. It’s these callbacks that essentially tell the audio engine that time has passed and it’s time to process the next cycle. If these callbacks stop, the audio engine will sit there thinking nothing is happening - and nothing will happen. MIDI will also stop being processed since any incoming MIDI is queued and processed on the next audio cycle - so if the audio cycles stop processing, so will MIDI processing.
TL;DR: Basically if the audio driver stops working, so will Cantabile.
But… all this will show up with a bunch of warning messages in Cantabile log file. If this happens again:
From the Tools menu, choose Open Settings Folder
Close Cantabile (important)
Send me a copy of the log.txt and log-previous.txt files in the folder opened in step 1.
Thank you for the information insight, @brad and @dave_dore. Very helpful!
I will check the USB cabling as my first task. I actually use two different pedal board configurations, one for my band and one for smaller group and solo work. So far, I have only observed this issue when using the smaller pedal board, so that would point to a cable, hardware or configuration root cause.
Regarding USB cabling, would the use of a USB Type A to USB-C adapter possibly contribute to a compromised connection/signal? I use this adapter under the assumption that the laptop’s USB-C connection may be faster, but I will try removing it and connecting directly to the laptop’s USB Type A port to see if the issue persists.
Also, I also employ a USB hub to connect both my MIDI keyboard and Android tablet to the laptop, as Cantabile needs to receive MIDI messages from both devices. I wonder if the hub could be a potential cause?
I should note that when I lose MIDI and audio, it is only after a couple hours of playing with no MIDI or audio dropouts, glitching, or any other audible issues.
USB hubs do steal power from a computer source, which will affect computer efficiency. I posted a thread here several years ago concerning studies of usb sourcing. I began using Powered hubs, and it cleared up many problems I was having.
Also, I posted another thread about usb cabling. I started using heavier gauge cables after the study, and have less cable failures.
@Corky the USB hub is powered. It is an RSHTECH 4-port hub bought on Amazon a few years ago, the same one that is in my larger pedal board that has not experienced this issue.
The heavier cabling is definitely a good thought as the cable from my MIDI keyboard to the hub is quite thin. I’ll check out your cabling thread, but are there any brands or sources that you recommend?
Belkin, Newegg, and Native Instruments (used to).
I think I found mine at Amazon, but be sure they are printer connection on one end, and usb on the other. The ones I bought had golden connectors and were less than 6ft. Just be careful about the correct connectors, and wire gauge. Mine are still working.
Only in that it’s an extra connection that could fail.
If you’re using a powered hub it should be fine, but depends on the quality hub itself.
Also, if you’re getting complete stalls pay closer attention to any USB cables connecting your audio interface. Faulty USB cables on MIDI devices morely like just cause weird MIDI issues (stuck/hung notes etc…).
My audio interface is integrated into my MIDI controller, a Studiologic Numa X Piano. So there is no extra cabling other than the Numa X USB into the hub, and the hub into the laptop.
