Last night's gig - WIDI connected Cantabiles

Our ‘all new’ rig took to the stage for the first time last night. Two Cantabile keyboard rigs, one running the show (and recording) and the other taking Song changes, State changes and visual cues over CME WIDI Buds.

It worked flawlessly.

As per normal we had Cantabile controlling the stage mic for talk between songs, then closing down when backing was running. It also lifted an audience mic in and out of our in-ears so we could hear reactions.

My ‘master’ Cantabile provided Timeline-based visual cues to Stream Decks connected to both laptops (thank you so much, Brad, for adding this Stream Deck feature). It also drove my self-made Arduino-based cue light box provided to our non-Cantabile player. Although each performer could have their own cues it was decided early in rehearsals to keep it simple and send all cues to all. I can’t over-emphasise the sense of confidence this cueing system has added, making performance much more enjoyable.

The only problems we hit were during set-up, and were the all too predictable ones related to having gear plugged into a different USB socket from rehearsals. I can’t understand why Windows has so much trouble with this. I also realised that I was at my limit of USB ports, so a new hub is going to be a necessity for the future.

Once we kicked off the whole rig ran like clockwork. It’s been well worth the effort setting this new system up.

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All run on Cantabile 4054, BTW.

This sounds very cool! Any pics? And of the stream deck?


You’ll notice the four numbered buttons - they are my cue lights.

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Congrats on the new rig and successful gig! I’ve been using WIDI for about a year and it’s also worked flawlessly for me. I’m just curious, how do you use the cue lights and numbers? Is it alerting players to an upcoming lead or something like that? FWIW one of my bands uses backing tracks and we cut an audio cue track for things like that, fed directly to our IEMs. I’m always interested to hear how others handle that.
Tom

I create Timeline-based ‘Is in range’ events that flash the Stream Deck buttons in time with the backing. Typically that will be a 1-2-3-4 count-in to an event, but may also simply be a ‘4’ light to make me aware that a significant event is approaching.

These events send controller 31-34 messages to three aggregated outputs…

  1. To my Stream Deck, via the ‘Onscreen Keyboard’ port.
  2. To Player #2’s Stream Deck via my WIDI Bud Pro, to his WIDI Bud Pro, and from there to his ‘Onscreen Keyboard’.
  3. To Player #3’s custom Arduino-based USB cue light box.

The Stream Deck has replaced my custom cue light boxes for two of us, but Player #3 does not use a computer, so prefers the ‘old way’.

Hope this explains. I’m happy to provide further information if it can help anyone.

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I like the simplicity of your approach!

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Hi, @The_Elf

I am resurrecting this post as I am thinking of changing to WIDI to simplify stage setup and wiring, and I find USB MIDI just a little too hit and miss on stage, so was going to go back to wired DIN MIDI but have just seen an advert for WIDI, so thought it worth investigating.

So just wondering how you have been getting on with WIDI.

I probably would have a need for seven devices max if everything was on WIDI, so if I read it correctly for a CME solution, I need two hosts for two groups.

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I only use WIDI devices (WIDI Bud Pro) to send data between Cantabile-based players to synchronise Songs and States, and to send cue messages. Each player is USB hard-wired to their own devices.

What I don’t do is transfer note data over WIDI. I would still be nervous of relying on any wire-free technology for this.

I’ve tested WIDI Bud/WIDI Master groups back in the studio, and they work fine - it’s just that given a choice between wired and wireless I’ve always chosen wired as the safer option.

You can attach up to four WIDI Masters to one WIDI Bud, so you would need two WIDI Buds to get up to eight. Again, this is not something I’ve ever attempted. Given the problems I’ve had connecting more than one identical USB MIDI device to a single PC I would be wary of this.

The system I describe at the top of this thread has proved itself 100% reliable so far.

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Just picking up on this.
I had a total nachtmare a couple of nights ago because of this. All port assignments disappeared. The train wreck which accompanies losing concentration on hooking up USB compounds under pressure.
Next day I stripped out all midi devices, reinstalled and took care of aliases, which can quickly address swapped ports.
I thought I had that all sorted and was confounded by …. a spelling error.
Anyway, lesson learned.

I tried to use the Cantabile web interface to bring a WiFi access point to the venue. Unfortunately, I was very close to a mobile phone repeater with over 20 antennas and a 5KW FM tower on the other side.

As a result, none of the wireless equipment (mics, mixers, ear monitors and web interface) worked smoothly.

Nowadays, with all the 2.4 and 5GHz gear out there, it’s a bit scary to use wireless MIDI. The idea of cutting out cables is tempting, but I’ve got a little voice in the back of my head telling me to avoid WIDI.

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To be clear - WIDI uses Bluetooth technology, not Wifi.

I wouldn’t choose WIDI where I can use a cable, but I can say that when I have used WIDI it’s been 100% reliable in every situation. I wouldn’t shy away from it if circumstances required it.

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@The_Elf

Thanks for the feedback on what you are doing. I will stick with my wired DIN plans then if I carry on with going out live. :slight_smile:

I’ve been using WIDI for a few years now, pretty much since it came out, and never had an issue in rehearsal or gigs. Once they are correctly set up I have found them to be rock solid. I do still carry midi cables but have yet to need them.

When I first got into it they only had the WIDI Master, the Bud pro was not available yet, so I went with the Masters. I now have a total of four:
My interface has the " central", WIDI 1. It essentially receives the midi data.
My EWI has WIDI 2 and sends note data, state advances, breath, etc… pretty much everything.
My FCB 1010 foot pedal has WIDI 3, and that is connected to my PC Bluetooth.
Widi 4 is a backup that is grouped with WIDI 1, so I can use it with pretty much anything.

The setup is always easy, and as I said rock solid, if you are connecting to a group. However, every time I have set up WIDI 3 for Bluetooth to PC, it’s a pain. For example, it was set up and working great for a couple years on my primary rig. Then I set it up to work on my backup rig. But when I swapped it back to the primary, the connection was broken and I had to set it up all over again. After much back and forth with CME, who is very helpful, I determined that in the case of WIDI 3 having a problem, I will just use WIDI 4 connected to Central, not through Bluetooth.

The reason you want to use Bluetooth on PC for things like controllers, foot controllers etc is that the more units in the group, there is a slight increase in latency. I haven’t tested that yet, but I believe it’s in the order of one or two ms. I can say that the latency from my EWI is negligible, and I’m quite sensitive to anything around 5 or more ms. Frankly, the latency on PC Bluetooth for my foot controller is essentially undetectable also. BTW for the Bluetooth PC, your controller must be on and the WIDI active before opening Cantabile.

I totally understand the desire to use cables, it’s one less thing to worry about. But in my personal experience WIDI has been 100% solid. The bottom line is to test it thoroughly after setup. But once it’s set up and working, it will work indefinitely. Once it is set, nothing will change it…power cycles, power interruptions, unplanned shut down, etc.
Just my 2 cents!
Tom

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I’m aware. The problem is that there are all kinds of wireless devices in the neighbourhood of the 2.4GHz band, including Bluetooth.

This is good to know. Any feedback is welcome :slight_smile:

Thanks for the feedback. You have given me an idea now to at least try WIDI to see what it is like.

I scored a WX5 on eBay many years ago and have been saving it for a rainy day….

I really need to give it a go some time, but the idea of being tied to a long MIDI lead has never been appealling. Your mention of the EWI makes me think I may give WIDI a cautious start on the WX5 - but I need to dig it out first and see if it is still working!