Display issue with Roland cloud synths


#1

First of all, since this is my first post in 2018: A happy new year to everyone in the community!

Now to the bug at hand: I’ve just installed the Roland Cloud JV1080 and played with it a bit. Looks like my future workhorse plugin - great bread-and-butter sounds for just about everything!

BUT: there is a big issue with it and Cantabile (current build 3517): Whenever I close the GUI and then open it again, it comes up as all white:

First open after loading:

Subsequent opens:

Same happens with other plugins from the Roland cloud like the Jupiter-8 or the Juno 106.

No such issues with build 3281 so far.

Cheers,

Torsten


#2

Hi Torsten and Happy New Year,

I have not tried these out so I can’t add anything on your problem, I’m sorry, but I wondered about the resource hit for this plug if you might share and did you lease or buy?

Thanks, and I’m sure Brad will sort it out for you,

Dave


#3

Hey Dave,

Resource hit is not so bad - I just tested it against a very basic M1 (Legacy Collection) saw string patch: M1 is around 8-10% load; JV1080 with a similar (but far better-sounding :wink: ) string patch is at 10-12%. A System-8 string patch weighs in at around 25%, so I think I can live with the JV1080 load.

I haven’t seen an option to buy this plugin; AFAIK, it’s only available through a Roland Cloud subscription. After Roland removed the need to be online every time you load the plugins, I took the plunge and subscribed. From what I’m hearing, the JV1080 alone is worth the price…

Cheers,

Torsten


#4

Hi,

I’m getting the same issue on 3513 (haven’t updated yet), and it is OK on 3279.

@dave_dore my performance load is around 10 to 14% with a 10ms buffer for the JV-1080.

With Roland Cloud you only have a subscription option but it seems good value, and for every 12 months of subscription, you get to choose one instrument that is then yours forever even if you stop subscribing, so that is a plugin for every $240 of membership, which does not seem bad compared to outright purchase and the fact that the $20 a month gives you access to all of their plugins.

I was not initially warm on the idea, but, like @Torsten, I took the plunge when they allowed you to go a week off line before having to authorise, that and the “choose a plugin every 12 months”. They sound really good to my ears, and I am hoping that they do a JD800 and JP8000 at some point, along with a VP330!


#5

Thanks Derek and Torsten for the info, I have heard good things about the Roland sound so I’m sniffing around…

Dave


#6

I am experiencing the same problem, it goes to white gui after returning to it. I have a REAL JV1080 that I used on stage for several years, so I had to get this one. The cpu usage is very low, and I am now incorporating it into my rig. Hopefully the expansions will eventually come out soon as well. I used the 60’s & 70’s Keyboards expansion card a lot.


#7

Me too, I have a real D50 and JV1080, and now I have the Roland Cloud plugin versions, which sound identical. I’ve even managed to get all my own created patches from the D50 into the plugin version, and they sound perfect. Fairly low system load - a really nice addition to the rig!

I’m still on pre-3500 versions of Cantabile at the moment, as I have gigs coming up, and I haven’t seen these display issues.

Neil


#8

Thanks @Torsten - I’ll check it out today.

Brad


#9

OK, so I’ve spent all day on this and I’m not really any closer to figuring out what the difference between 32xx and 35xx is. As far as I can tell all the api calls to the plugin are identical, and I’ve disabled a whole bunch of newer things in 35xx (ie: all the window resolution stuff) and still no go.

It seems in 35xx the second time Cantabile asks the plugin to create it’s editor window - it flat out fails. I’ve double checked all the code where the previous editor is closed and it all looks good. I’ve even tried debugging through the plugin with side-by-side disassembly of 35xx vs 32xx but it showed some really weird stuff that the plugin is doing in 35xx…

It seems once the plugin has been opened and then closed, there’s a background timer running that causes the plugin to constantly create (and presumably destroy) windows - multiple times per second. That seems a horrible waste of resources and CPU. I checked in VSTHost and Forte and it does it there too.

Also discovered:

  • these plugins screw around with Cantabile’s (all builds) (and Forte’s) main window title. Try it - open the plugin editor and watch Cantabile’s title text get replaced by the name of the plugin. That’s the plugin doing things it has no business touching.

  • they don’t play well with Cantabile’s per-window resolution support - all popup menus don’t work. Not sure whose fault this is (mine, Microsoft’s or Roland’s).

So basically I’m not too impressed with what these plugins are up to. I’ll continue to look into it, but I might need to get some assistance from Roland to get it fixed properly.

In the meantime:

  • Stick to 32xx series builds, or
  • If you need to get to the plugin UI a second time in 35xx, you can unload/reload the plugin (right click -> Unload Plugin) will make it appear again (once more anyway)
  • Don’t use Cantabile’s per-window resolution support

Brad


#10

oh oh. Doesn’t sound good. Possibly a conspiracy? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


#11

@brad

I am still running 3275 on my main laptop, and JV 1080 GUI displays perfectly well after closing and opening GUI many times. I have just begun to migrate to 35XX on my backup laptop, and the white screen always appears after 2nd GUI load.


#12

I don’t think it’s anything that couldn’t be easily fixed - I’ve reached out to Roland, hopefully I’ll hear from them soon.

Yep, that’s what happens for me to and as mentioned, I’m not sure what’s different in 35xx to provoke this. Either way, on 32xx in the background after closing the GUI, it’ll be creating and destroying windows at a rapid rate - for reasons unknown. And there’s the weird title updating thing too.

Yep. I actually do have a hacky workaround that does make it reappear the second time but, well, it’s hacky and I’m reluctant to put it in. I’d prefer find the correct solution, which I’ll continue to hunt down.

Brad


#13

Just heard back from Roland. They already have a bug logged for “blank plugin UI’s in some hosts”. I have no other details, but it seems this problem isn’t exclusive to Cantabile.


#14

As for the issue with the popup menus when Cantabile’s per-window resolution support is enabled, this too is a Roland bug.

Technical reason: it’s using Cantabile’s main window (rather than it’s own plugin editor window) as the parent for the popup menu. Because Cantabile’s main window is in hi-dpi mode and the plugin is running in standard DPI mode, Windows gets all confused and displays a weirdly sized, unclickable menu.

I’ll log this with Roland.

At this stage, I have workaround solutions for all the critical issues with these plugins but since 35xx is still marked as experimental I’m not going to put in these fixes (for the moment at least) in the hope that Roland will fix the issues soon. By leaving the issues unaddressed it should also make it easier and more obvious to Roland what the problems are.

I’ll post back here as I here more.


#15

Thanx a lot Brad. It is something I can easily work around. Hopefully Roland will come through with a fix.


#16

Thanks, Brad. It makes sense not to introduce kludge fixes unless there is no other solution.

Hopefully Roland will fix the issues.

Cheers
Derek


#17

This kind of in-depth information and well-considered support is an example to everyone, Brad. Keep up the good work, mate.


#18

Hi Brad,

I’m still on a 32xx build and while I’m not having the white GUI issue, I noticed that the GUI doesn’t expand to show the edit window when you hit the edit button and also doesn’t scale right when you change the GUI zoom level…

Just thought I’d let you know in case that suggests something else is the problem…

Cheers as always,

P


#19

Since it seems Roland has no interest in fixing the “questionable” techniques used in their Cloud plugins I’m unfortunately going to have to put in a bunch of hacks and workaround specifically for these plugins.

After reverse engineer some of what they do I’ve figured out that instead of simply using the parent window that the host passes them, they go through this rigmarole of enumerating all the top level windows of the current thread, ignoring those that don’t match their criteria before finally settling on one they deem acceptable.

Unfortunately for Cantabile this means they pick Cantabile’s main window instead of the plugin editor window - from which stems a bunch of bugs and other quirks (especially when per-windows resolution is enabled).

So I’ve spent all day debugging and annotating disassembly listings (accompanied with a healthy dose of swearing) and I still don’t have a fix, nor any idea why they’re doing any of this.

But, I’ll continue with it tomorrow…


#20

Ugh! Sounds horrendous,

As one who is likely to be using a couple of Roland cloud synths in the near future, I’d like to offer my thanks for such tenacious troubleshooting.

When someone has to get down to assembler level to fix modern software problems you know they’re committed to a fix!