Trigger and Binding questions


#1

I don’t have any trouble with play/pause bindings and creating other basic bindings. But I’m a bit stumped on Triggers, and some more complex bindings I’m trying to create. So, a few specific questions…

  1. Is it possible to make an expression pedal act like 2 switches for Song States? I.e. pressed down it advances to song state 2, up it goes back to state 1. I have an FCB1010 and can program the exp pedal to send a specific range of CC values, i.e. 63-65. I’ve tried all the options (edge triggered, not, etc.), no luck. But this same approach works great with changing amps on my main VSTi, S-Gear using CC 63-65, and if I can get it working on C3 it would be really handy for those songs where I only have 2 states.

  2. With the FCB’s physical switches (which are momentary), how do I program a double tap for Play/Pause? And can I still make it a toggle…double tap for play, double tap for pause? Just to avoid an accidental tap. I know using a trigger and delay is the key, but I can’t get the delay to work. Here’s what I’ve got so far (in Background Rack) but it doesn’t require a double tap… just one tap starts Play.

  3. When using tracks in the media players, how do you set a trigger for an action at a specific time on the track or timeline? For example, reverb suspend. I can successfully create a trigger at a certain point, but how do I know which “Plugin #” the specific reverb is? Which leads to my next question…

  4. What are “Objects” under the Action column? And how do I work with them and edit the index #s? I’ve gathered that “Objects” are basically anything inlcuding plugs, racks, ports etc. But where can I find the index of the objects and their numbers? In other words, I want to control a reverb plug… which object # is it?
    Thanks!
    Tom


#2

Hey twaw,

lots to answer here but here’s a go at it, hope it helps!

This rack does that. You route the CC11 pedal to it and it produces a CC64 or CC11 button switch for each direction which you can bind to your state changes. It will trigger when you pass a CC value of 64 each direction. Look inside at the routes if you want to see how it was rigged.

Expression to Switch.cantabileRack (29.9 KB)

To make double tap from a momentary you use a binding like this to covert the PG change message to a CC number and make it a toggle switch like below. This will require 2 taps of the PG change message to toggle the switch each way

Call up the timeline view so you can see the track, set the main transport to the media player you are using and then move the play cursor to the point you want the trigger cue. Then make a binding like this to set it using the current position button to speed things up …

in this example the trigger switches to the next song state

Any rack, plugin or media player is an object. When they are indexed it refers to the order they assume in the Object list of the routing page. So the top most plugin is index #1 and the next occurrence downward of a plugin becomes index #2 and so on down the list. The same ordering rules apply to the racks and media players.

Dave


#3

Many Thanks as always, Dave! On the double tap, I haven’t actually tried that binding yet (and I will tonight) but I’m wondering what makes this binding a double tap? I thought the key to a double tap was a delay and a trigger, but don’t see any delay in there. It would seem that this binding is simply converting the PG to CC? So maybe the double tap is sort of a “side effect” of the PG to CC function? Or is it because it’s converting to a CC Switch as opposed to the other CC options like edge etc.?

I did get triggers working in the Timeline late last night, very cool. A VERY handy function for songs with backing tracks. And OK, now I get the Object/Indexing. Would be nice if each object was identified with the associated index # on the Routing screen, but that’s OK…I guess I’ll be doing a lot of counting!

Again, thanks!
Tom


#4

Hey Tom,

Not sure , just tested till I got the result I wanted but it seems like the binding converts the PG message into a edge switch. Edge switches don’t make a 127-0 event from one press like a button switch instead producing only half of the button switch action with each press so first press makes the 127, second press makes the 0. That = 1 button switch (127-0) = one state change on the toggle switch that is the target. The toggle switch target needs the (127-0) again to change back to it’s other state so 2 more edge triggers are required. That’s my best explanation I can muster …

You could also organize them if possible into repeatable order if it would help, glad things are working out!

Dave


#5

Interesting… makes sense. Can’t wait to check it out tonight. And yes, typically they will be in the same order since I used my template to build each song, but on some songs I had racks that weren’t needed so I deleted them… but yeah, that will get me close. Thanks!
Tom


#6

Hi Dave, on the double-tap, how do i get the double tap to work across all songs? When I try to save it in the background rack it doesn’t work, and I’ve tried several combinations of saving the bindings in the rack, song, or background rack, and nothing translates across all songs.

I can get it to work if I save the PGM>CC binding in my main linked rack for the FCB footpedal, and then save the actual Play binding in the song. But then when I open another song, the FCB linked rack does still have the PGM>CC binding, but I have to manually create the Play binding. I also tried copying the binding from another song but that doesn’t work either.

I don’t understand why it won’t in the background rack. Single taps work fine there, but that’s about it.
Thanks!


#7

Hey Tom, I’m not sure I will try it here. If you have a screenshot of the BG rack that would be great.


#8

Hey Dave, sure, here it is without the binding:

And here it is with a binding that doesn’t work. since It’s in the Background rack it appears that it’s not actually processing the PGM>CC, because when I try to create a binding to a Transport function (either thru Add Binding or right-click a Transport button), CC25 doesn’t appear in the learn functions. I tried several options manually too :

BTW I have no trouble setting Bindings for single tap Transport functions, in the Background rack… works across all songs, every time. So go figure…

Here’s what DOES work…
Transport Binding saved at the Song Level (BTW I do 1 button Play/stop and another Play/Pause… but no change doing just one or the other):

The PGM>CC binding saved WITHIN my FCB rack:

But the problem with this is that I have to create a new Transport binding for each song… PGM>CC of course carries over in the linked FCB rack, which is in every song. Not a terrible problem, luckily I only have about 40 songs to update and I’ll fix my template to avoid future issues. But it seems it might be a big time-saver to have this functionality at the Background level…?
Thanks!
Tom


#9

OK, the target for the binding in picture one is? All I can see is “Output Port…Ch.3”. What does the whole thing read?


#10

That’s Rack midi out


#11

It would but the Background rack MIDI output ports don’t appear as routing sources at the song level so there is your problem. Where do you want to route your CC toggles you made to? It will help me figure a solution but it looks like you need to have a loopMidi port installed so you can route from the background rack to the Songs. Here is the link for loopMidi

https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

After it is installed let me know and I’ll post the setup instructs, must step away for a few …

Dave


#12

Thanks Dave I appreciate the help. Exactly… it’s converting to CC but not getting to the background rack for Transport.

Well, I think to the Background Rack. The only reason I created the toggles within the FCB rack is because that’s the only place I could get it to “take”. Ideally, both bindings would be in the background rack, but I don’t think that will work.

Will Loopmidi lose all it’s ports on shutdown/logoff? The descripstion seems to indicate it will, unless C3 can save it’s ports.
Thanks!
Tom


#13

After looking a little closer at your background rack config I think I see something you should try. The bindings inside your rack are the key. You should copy them directly to the bindings tab in the background rack instead of using the MIDI rack in and MIDI rack out like you tried before. So copy these bindings or reproduce them in the Background rack and that should do it. If there are problems let me know. Sorry about the loopMIDI, you probably don’t need it for this issue but FWIW it can be a very handy thing when you use the background rack.


#14

My previous post wasn’t the ticket but this is I think. You don’t need a loopback port so that’s not in it. First you open the background tack and create a new embedded rack, rename it if you want and see that the FCB pedal is routed to it’s rack Midi in.

Then open the new embedded rack and make these 2 bindings in it with the proper PG numbers …

Close the embedded rack and then make 2 more bindings at the BG rack root level …

This will produce the double switch action on the transport globally …

Good puzzle Tom, but I think this will work, it tests good here

Dave


#15

That’s great, Dave, I’ll try it shortly. Yeah, I’d tried putting the other binding in the background, and I’d tried several other combinations. But I didn’t think to create a rack within the background rack! I’ll let you know. Thanks!


#16

It worked…thanks! I discovered a bug in the process, or at least what seems like undesirable behavior… after creating the bindings and testing and confirming it worked, I saved the background rack. Then I opened the embedded rack inside it “DT… Double Tap”), and Saved As… gave it name and saved. After that, the bindings stopped working. The routings and bindings were incomplete now. I subsequently discovered that when you save that embedded DT rack, it turned into a linked rack. Hmmm, maybe I accidentally created a link rack. OK, delete the DT rack, open that DT file I saved, and same result… all the bindings were broken, and C# showed it as a linked rack. WTF? I started over, (again!), rebuilt everything from scratch, created a new embedded rack without loading the now corrupted original rack, got it working, and… same result… upon saving the embedded rack it gets all messed up and your working function is now broken again.
The only way I could get it to work and hold is NOT to save that embedded DT rack. Seems C3 doesn’t like a rack within the background rack?

IDK, I haven’t tried the latest stable build yet, maybe that has something to do with it… im on 3587. But this isn’t the first time I’ve lost hours due to weird behavior on C3… I love it’s flexibility but I’m not a software engineer, and it seems like those who have the fewest issues with it have programming experience. Better documentation would go a long way toward making it easier to work with. I know Brad is working on the Mac version and other things, but I think he’d open up to a much broader customer base if there were more in-depth tutorials and documentation. Just my .02.
Maybe it’s jsut my system, but I’d sure be interested to know if anyone else has experienced this issue.
Anyway, thanks for your help Dave!


#17

Tom …

Don’t save the embbeded rack just save the background rack as a whole thing. I’m sorry I didn’t mention that but glad you got it going!

Best

Dave


#18

Yeah, I figured that out the hard way! No worries!
Tom