a little background: I’m running Cantabile 3 on a Toshiba laptop with I7 Intel processor and solid state drive. The audio out of the laptop is being processed by the laptop’s soundcard and the signal is being sent via a 1/8" plug/cable to a direct box and then to an input on the board.
My problem is that I can’t seem to get enough gain out of some (but not all) of the plug-ins, i.e., I run out of head room. Particularly for plug-ins like VB3 (organ) or Korg M1 (pads), I have to crank the plug-in volume to 127. Currently I have the overall plug-in volume on cantabile set at 0 DB, but even if I raise it to +5db, it may not be enough. I suppose there is a risk of distortion as I increase the overall gain level of the plug-in? Not sure how else to handle it. I have the volume for the sound card set to maximum. do I need to look at some kind ofhardware solution for the sound as it comes out of the laptop? Of course, this would be my least preferable option as it would require $$$.
if absolute level is an issue (check your plugin’s level meter - is it safely away from peak levels?), then
try to run the level as hot as possible within the plugin for the respective patch
if the level is still not high enough, you can add up to 14 dB of gain using the plugin level slider
if you want to manage this nicely on a “per patch” basis, then stuff the plugin into a rack and vary the plugin level by rack state. You can then keep the overall rack level at a steady 0dB to the outside world, using the rack volume level to fine-tune per song
But: If you are already tickling the main level meters into the red and your sounds still feel too quiet, we’re in different territory:
sometimes sound design can make a difference - enough treble / high mids in the sound to make it cut through?
Or sometimes: too much bass that is hardly heard but eats away your headroom? VB3 is a typical candidate for this - I run all my VB3 instances through a high pass filter and lower the low mids in addition. This gives me far more bite and less rumble
if all else fails, you might try a limiter after your plugins to shave off some of the peaks, allowing you to squeeze even more volume out of your headroom.
After all this, you ought to have your (digital) levels very close to full scale - nothing else you can do within the machine now.
Last possible issue is of course the level coming out of your laptop: what interface are you using (onboard audio??), and what are you connecting to? If you have the levels in Cantabile maxed out and your sound card turned to max volume and your mixing desk or active speakers still don’t show sufficient levels coming in, then your audio interface may be a bit under-powered or not connected to the right input.
Last option: too much death-metal - you’ve gone deaf
[quote=“Torsten, post:2, topic:177”]
I run all my VB3 instances through a high pass filter and lower the low mids in addition.
[/quote]…I had not thought about using a hipass filter on VB3- you’re right, those lower tones can easily muddy up the mix. I guess you set the hipass filter to “pleasing to the ear” level? Would you explain what you mean by “lowering the low mids”?
[quote=“Torsten, post:2, topic:177”]
try to run the level as hot as possible within the plugin for the respective patch
[/quote] … are you referring to the actual volume control within the plugin- for example the volume knob on the VB3 GUI?
The DI Box settings and the output power and impedance of the audio port on the pc are suspect. Some DI boxes allow for control of the input signal strength or the output signal strength. Check the settings on the DI box. This could be a knob labeled “gain” or “volume.” Some DI boxes have controls for both. Also, you might have a pad switch enabled on the DI which drastically cuts the signal strength. These can even exist on passive DI boxes. Also you can see if the di box is the source of the attenuation by temporarily connecting straight to a Hi-z (1/4 in phone) input on the board bypassing the DI box. Hope you figure whatever it is out.
I usually set my highpass around 80-100 Hz - don’t want to get in the way of kick drum and bass. Lowering the low mids: I use a low shelf EQ at around 250-350 Hz at -6 dB (adjust frequency and gain to taste).
Most audio outs from tablets and laptops are around 10k ohms output impedance and work fine with DI Boxes. That said measuring impedance is a difficult task requiring special meters and math, so the best thing would be not to troubleshoot that way. Instead just do real world plug and test till you find where the volume drop occurs in your circuit.
plug 1/8 in ti 1/4 adapter directly to hi-z input on a mixing board and check for robust levels on channel
insert DI box and see how much difference in volume there is after setup of low-z gain on channel used.
if they are about the same then the di box isn’t the problem. As stated above check the di box for any pad switches or attenuators.( if a powered di also check power supply or battery)
Also a question: did you use Cantabile 2 on same machine and did it work ok?
Edit: I forgot to mention to check for a physical thumbwheel volume pot on your laptop. If it has one then see if it’s turned all the way up.
Just a few other thoughts… There have always been low volume issues with some laptops going back to the start of them, not all but many under-power the output jack. The DI Box (if passive) can not make the volume go up anymore and actually drops the signal level further when you pass through it. These two things combined probably explain what’s happening to your setup. I don’t know what is available in your gear but I think you need to put another preamp in between the laptop and the Main Mixing Board. A small keyboard mixer with low Z outs would do it and would also eliminate the need for a DI Box or a mixer with a HI Z output into the DI box, anything that can cleanly boost the level. Best of luck with it.
Don’t get that one, it has a special eq built in just for record players and would mess with your mix. This type of a solution is better approach I think (I had a small peavy mixer 4 chan and it was what i used until i got a usb audio interface box) : compact full range mixer. It gives way more full range gain control and therefore headroom for clean signal.
Dave, your post reminded me that I a Xenyx 802 which has been sitting in a closet for some time. I’ve added it to my set up and I seem to have plenty of volume now.
