When you pros – I’m not – are playing, who pays for the right to use the material you are covering? You, the club, who?
They usually hit the club, who, in turn, tries to put it back on the band.
The club has more equity and can be forced to close if they don’t pay.
His former manager was an ***hole. Fogerty got the rights to finally record and perform new material, so his former manager, sued him for “sound alike old” new material.
Yeah, I had heard the Fogerty story before. Back on topic – although I reserve the right to hijack my own thread and allow others to do so as well – a defense, when getting caught sampling a sound, would be that the sound belonged to the instrument, not the person whose recording contained it. Prove that I don’t own an identical instrument, set up the same way. I don’t have to, the accuser does.
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But, they could also say you were performing a cover of that sound. Again…that’s what courts are for.
Okay, so who / where does the club or the band buy the right to perform songs they don’t own?
Through BMI…ASCAP, ETC.
Somewhat like radio stations do. They have to list every song and artist.
RonArt:
If the musician belongs to BMI or ASCAP or such, s/he can play (cover) that service’s songs legally
They can cover/play their own material as long as they are registered as the writer and/or publisher, but no one else’s work unless they have permission. Membership only gets you royalties on works you own.
Okay, so who / where does the club or the band buy the right to perform songs they don’t own?
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Through BMI…ASCAP, ETC.
Somewhat like radio stations do. They have to list every song and artist.
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I must have missed something … Belonging to BMI and/or ASCAP (mind you, I’m throwing these around w/o knowing any details related to either) pays for the right to perform the songs on their lists.
It must be noted that each performing rights organization manages the rights to a separate repertoire of musical works. To ensure that all music played in its space is authorized, businesses must obtain licenses from all PROs. Currently there are three PROs – the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP), Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI), and SESAC. ASCAP and BMI control the rights to most musical pieces. If a business chooses this course of action, it will then face the decision whether to buy licenses from one, two, or all three PROs. The licensing fees will vary according to the individual circumstances of the business, such as type of business, customer space, and business hours. Typically, the cost to a small business to obtain an annual license from one of the larger PROs, such as ASCAP, is in the range of 300 to 500 US dollars.
taken from https://www.paaba.org/2011/10/when-should-small-business-pay-ascap-or-bmi/
So you knew that then.
Membership is quite different from licensing.
Actually, I guessed correctly for once. My question dealt only with not getting sued as a performer (should I ever go pro), and not getting my venue sued too. Collecting royalties is another issue. Back to the first here’s another quote:
We have a license with another PRO. Do we still need to license with BMI?
A music license with another performing rights organization allows you to perform
only copyrighted music represented by that organization. It does not cover public
performances of the nearly 13 million musical works licensed by BMI. This is
because each songwriter or composer may belong to only one performing right
organization at any given time, so each PRO licenses a unique repertoire of music.
from http://www.californiacraftbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/BreweryBMIFAQ.pdf
Yet another quote:
Aren’t musicians, entertainers and DJ’s responsible for obtaining permission for music they perform?
Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.
from (https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing)](https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing)
In the 51 years I’ve been performing live music, I have never worried about copyrights. I am quite sure I have played in many venues where there was no license. That one encounter I had, I paid nothing. Early on, having a musician’s union card was more important.
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Corky, I started doing Open Mics last year. I knew nothing about this up until now. So I hope the bars where I played were covered, although they could not have had any idea what songs I was going to play, and which belonged to what service. There should be a better way than this. The odds are against it but all it would take is one lawsuit and there goes one’s retirement. Ignorance of the law is not a legal defense.
Many years ago, we had to submit a setlist to the venues. I knew it was for copyrights at that time. It has been decades since I had to do that. One of the well known delis here always had entertainment, but didn’t bother to acquire a license, and ASCAP got them for about $14,000 worth of cover bands and recorded music. BUT, that is on them, not performers.
Yeah, everything I am reading now seems to nail the venues and not touch the bands. A chicken-shack got nailed for over $100,000. Ouch. Thanks for sharing your real-life incident. Again, there should be a better way.
I can imagine having a marketing “leg up” going to a venue and saying they should hire your band because your band is “covered” with the major services. If they are already covered, no problem; else, that would be a big plus … who wants to get sued?
It is on the venue to keep up with performance royalty stuff, just like radio stations, as stated. Now do they- I doubt it. But they are supposed to track live bands, jukeboxes, any source of music in their venue and pay the performing rights organizations which then pay the artists. In 40 years of performing music never have I had anyone ever suggest that it was somehow my responsibility to deal with royalties for performing covers.
And I’ve had a couple instances recording songs for clients where they either had a sample in their demo that wasn’t cleared, or once or twice used sounds from demos of a piece of software we (or they) hadn’t bought. We just re-create them, or something close enough to give the feel without infringing.
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I appreciate the info sharing, FredProgGH. Like so many things, there’s the rule and there’s reality. It’s good to know that the precedence is that the venue is expected to deal with the royalty details.
And – back on topic – I’m going with using “store bought” samples (including free downloads) as the safe way to get sounds that are “close enough”.
In the real world, I suppose lawsuits are only undertaken when the offense is egregious enough to win in court. The Chicken Shack had been warned and fined and continued to bring in performers without securing a Performance License, so there’s it is.
I think we all aspire to be on the radar enough to draw the attention of anyone who might want to raise heck over the use of a sample in our music 
Up till now my definition of being famous was “when somebody knows who you are, and you don’t know who that person is”. I’ll add to it “when somebody cares enough to sue you at your very best” (hopefully, Hallmark Cards won’t sue me for that … well of course they won’t, I’m not famous!).
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