How do you use Gain?


#21

@dave_dore

LOL!! This is my quick experiment with it. Gonna tweak it more later.

Really amazed me how much more I got out of it with simple settings.


#22

@Corky Excellent, many Thanks for posting settings I have heard much praise of it except for the 76 model (steer clear of it for now until fully resolved by DG) but have been occupied with many other sonic and digital distractions of late so have not delved into. Will be experimenting soon as well! Try putting the Track limiter in the output rack set as a brickwall to catch bad boys and turn off the C3 limiter if you haven’t already. (It will change the fidelity and response for sure if they are all on)

Dave


#23

Thanks for suggesting it. I got it at a discount awhile back, but got busy and didn’t get to run through it. I understand the occupation. I’ve been lost in playing guitar through Valhalla Shimmer.

Wow Dave. thanks for the tip…will try it soon.

Corky


#24

If you control the rack-gain with a midi-controller you will see, that we already can go to +14db! :wink:

@dave_dore: Thanks for all the useful hints.


#25

When using a limiter, be sure to check for latency effects. Most brickwall limiters, due to their lookahead, introduce significant additional latency. In a DAW, this doesn’t matter, but live, it is definitely an issue. That’s why I am using compressors instead of limiters in my master rack.

Cheers

Torsten


#26

Until reading this thread, I had never thought about using limiters or compressors in Cantabile, but now I am starting to add one (using the free “Unlimited” by Sonic Anomaly, with spectacular results. Thanks, guys :ok_hand:


#27

@Torsten

Thanks for the insight Torsten.

Regards

Corky


#28

Torsten is correct about Brick wall limiters with look-ahead causing latency problems. The limiter I recommended has look-ahead but that feature is switchable so my common track usage (in this case the C3 output) is very low latency (on a par with compressors) with this feature off. It still acts like a limiter but at low latency. I will keep an ear open to see if I am causing any artifacts with it but have been playing through it for months with no troubles. I shouldn’t have used the brick-wall term in my previous post, I just meant that I have a fast acting limiter at the output to catch spikes that elude your compressors and to boost the output level if needed.

Dave


#29

@dave_dore

DMG TrackLimit boasts: “We reworked the Limitless engine into a wideband format, and then went to work reducing CPU and latency; the end result is great limiting that’s simple, quick, and won’t tax your CPU”. The compressor boasts zero-latency. I am pleased with the compressor so far. I didn’t consider the latency until Torsten reminded me. I am, however, going to experiment with TrackLimit along side the compressor today, since I have my full rig setup for a few days, just to see if a noticeable amount of latency occurs. I trust Torsten will be correct though as always. :wink:

EDIT: Dave, what settings are you using on the TrackLimit?


#30

Hi Corky,

I have the one in the organ rack set to punchy ( about 2 mS added latency), with the threshold about -10 db and with the rms input signal set to about -18 db (I still mix old school) and the output ceiling set to - .6 db. I also turn off the gain linking for both my uses. The Transparent is what I use in the Master rack but it is set with the threshold at -1 db and the ceiling at .6 db. I tried measuring the added latency some time back in Studio One and that yielded measurements of about 5 mS for the transparent settings (the longest added latency) and about 1 mS for the aggressive (the shortest added latency). The styles list progressively adds latency from the top (aggressive) to the bottom (transparent) of the list. I turned off C3’s limiter function and replaced it with the transparent settings in the Master Rack. It doesn’t squeeze at all the way I’m using it, it just guards the output so to speak like the C3 limiter did. On latency to put it in perspective DMG Limitless sounds incredible but adds a noticeable latency and Cpu hit almost 5 to 10 times the processing time depending on the settings making it unusable for live work. I still think I should switch to compressor for the organ rack though, Torsten makes many good points on this and you said the new DMG TrackComp has promise, I’ll try it out and see if I get some proper religion on it …:grin:

Dave


#31

Thanks Dave. I am really getting a good boost without distortion out of TrackComp. Been experimenting all day with many different things.


#32

@dave_dore
This is where I am now. I haven’t noticed a latency problem by ear, and am still pushing limits very far. Still no distortion. The Free G is maxed and the C3 limiter is off. I am running an Acoustic Samples Piano as my test instrument. C3 meters in Master Rack are showing clipping, but are not clipping on output meters outside the rack on routing page. Loud and clear is what I have now. Will have to do more testing, especially in rehearsal. Hopefully, I have found 11 on my volume knob. :grin:
I am running this order: Free G, TrackComp, TrackLimit. I am going to move things around just to see if order changes anything.


#33

Looks great! @Corky, and you could still add more gain at the ‘ceiling’ adjustment on the limiter but always leave some headroom if adding more instruments in the mix. You can raise it closer to 0 db but stay below a little to protect your speakers and ears !:rofl: By the way I didn’t realize you were chaining the limiter in the same line with you test instrument. I would use it for sure in my master rack and maybe drop it in the instrument rack and just use the compressor like Torsten suggests if it’s practical, if not, what you have set up is used a lot in a strip form if it’s quick enough and doesn’t distort, it just wasn’t around till lately I guess. This is a great test you are running! I did similar stuff with Ultrachannel but I find the sound of the DMG plugs is more my cup of tea. Keep me informed …:grinning:

Dave


#34

I seriously have to take this all in and do some work on compressing my output as well. I am overloading “by surprise” way too often! Great stuff!!!

Terry


#35

Hi Terry

I started “overloading” by surprise about a year ago. Don’t know what changed for sure, but I have really been struggling with it. I was finding when bumping it up to keep up with others, I was distorting, and quite frankly it sounded like dreck and really changed the response on the keyboard. It also changed the way my guitar responded thru the amp sims. Since I have a few weeks away from the usual gig routine, I thought it was time I try to solve this problem. As you see, I am night owling, as are you. :smiley:


#36

Did someone test those utilities?

https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/3-Studio-Tools/79-Metering/3901-DRMeter
https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/3-Studio-Tools/79-Metering/3902-DROffline


#37

@FantomXR I use both of those for mastering duties. I have other meters I use for the actual mastering process but I always use the DROffline so the mastered item (vinyl, CD, whatever) can be marked up with the DR value - it’s a label/indicator of dynamics. I’m a proud member of the Pleasurize Music Foundation! Bringing dynamics back to music and fighting the loudness wars! Rarrrgh! http://www.dynamicrange.de/en/our-aim

I got these meters free when I joined (there was a joining fee I believe) but everyone can use them now which is great and they are maintained by a company called MAAT. Not sure how useful they are for live although you can use them to balance up all your sounds (as they display LUFS/Loudness you can use them so all your sounds reference the same average loudness as peaks might not be so useful for sounds) but for recording they are great!


#38

No doubt an uphill battle, but proud someone is fighting the war. Does this include fighting the war against the ridiculous amount of distortion being applied to nearly every top 40 (ugh) “hit”? It’s like drummers and singers now need to add a Big Muff distortion pedal to their arsenal. :rofl: Thanks for the info.


#39

Because services like iTunes are now applying auto-leveling to songs it’s starting to combat the brick-wall practices somewhat- if you do it to your song iTunes will look at the RMS and your song will play softer than others. It’s a good start. On the last Glass Hammer album we skipped finalizing completely. We’c traditionally used Bob Katz (who does an amazing job, always) but after debate we put out the final mixes exactly as we had done them, no compression, no limiting. Sounds great but I’ve considered a special edition “car” version that is in fact louder :smiley: :smiley:


#40

It does sound good, Fred :slight_smile: